[Milton-L] Credited Wiki (Salwa)

Richard A. Strier rastrier at uchicago.edu
Fri Nov 3 17:38:05 EDT 2017


I would be happy to discuss scholarly and critical issues relating to the writings of John Milton.  In fact, I look forward to it.
RS

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 3, 2017, at 7:09 PM, Hannibal Hamlin <hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com<mailto:hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com>> wrote:

John, I share your concern about the (occasional, not total) trolling and ignorance, but are there better discussions of Milton happening online elsewhere? If so, I'd be happy to join, but if there aren't, I'd like to work to make the discussions here better. The latest issues have been irritating and distracting, but I do think the general response was appropriate and decisive.

Best,

Hannibal


On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:46 PM, John Staines <jdstaines at gmail.com<mailto:jdstaines at gmail.com>> wrote:
No, Salwa, you are not too sensitive.

I teach on a campus that is 80% non-white, and when I teach Milton, I am often the only white man in the room.  My students, of all ethnicities and creeds, come to love Milton and his challenges.  Thinking that a Google search might bring one of them to such grotesquely racist images presented as Miltonic turns my stomach.  The explanatory text that follows the picture does not even deserve comment.

I have resisted resigning from this list since, on occasion, it still produces some intellectually interesting ideas and debates.  Most scholars of my generation and the next left long ago or never joined. Lately, though, the list has mostly consisted of trolling and ignorance.  Maybe it is time to put it down.

Sincerely,

John Staines
John Jay College, City University of New York


On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 1:22 PM, <milton-l-request at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-request at richmond.edu>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Credited Wiki (Terrance Lindall)
   2. Re: Credited Wiki (Salwa)
   3. Re: Credited Wiki (Salwa)
   4. Re: Credited Wiki (Graham, Jean)
   5. Re: Credited Wiki (Graham, Jean)
   6. Re: Credited Wiki (Margaret Thickstun)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 12:37:01 -0400
From: Terrance Lindall <tlindall at gmail.com<mailto:tlindall at gmail.com>>
To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
Subject: [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
Message-ID:
        <CAPXDMnk1MN_cnMzUnU5-imsbREEPt9taqw8QjRpNuwec5fmm7A at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAPXDMnk1MN_cnMzUnU5-imsbREEPt9taqw8QjRpNuwec5fmm7A at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Guys:

I credited the Wiki source on my Wordpress site and WIX Site. Thanks for
pointing out my sloppiness. At the glorious age of 73 one gets a bit lazy.

I used to be a good scholar, original research, solid reasoning and
meticulous crediting. Strong suit was logic. My Milton professor said in
praise on my final exam that I still have in my archives,  "Milton would
have reasoned thus!" Graduated Magna Cum Laude with double majors and a
double minor.

I see Wordpress got over 90 views on that one day. Thanks for looking.

Have you seen my latest Milton Portrait:

https://issuu.com/lindall/docs/satan_as_a_black_man_reduced
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 11:53:12 -0500
From: "Salwa" <skhoddam at cox.net<mailto:skhoddam at cox.net>>
To: "'John Milton Discussion List'" <milton-l at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at richmond.edu>>,    "'John
        Milton Discussion List'" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
Message-ID: <006201d354c4$3cf1f750$b6d5e5f0$@cox.net<http://cox.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear All,

Maybe I?m too sensitive, or maybe I misinterpreted it, but I?m insulted by Terrance Lindall?s Milton Portrait.

I do wish that such postings do not find their way into our Milton Discussion List. I do appreciate it though that the Wiki source was credited.

Salwa



Salwa Khoddam, PhD.

Professor of English, Emerita

Oklahoma City University



From: milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu> [mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu>] On Behalf Of Terrance Lindall
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2017 11:37 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
Subject: [Milton-L] Credited Wiki



Dear Guys:

I credited the Wiki source on my Wordpress site and WIX Site. Thanks for pointing out my sloppiness. At the glorious age of 73 one gets a bit lazy.

I used to be a good scholar, original research, solid reasoning and meticulous crediting. Strong suit was logic. My Milton professor said in praise on my final exam that I still have in my archives,  "Milton would have reasoned thus!" Graduated Magna Cum Laude with double majors and a double minor.

I see Wordpress got over 90 views on that one day. Thanks for looking.

Have you seen my latest Milton Portrait:


https://issuu.com/lindall/docs/satan_as_a_black_man_reduced

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 11:53:12 -0500
From: "Salwa" <skhoddam at cox.net<mailto:skhoddam at cox.net>>
To: "'John Milton Discussion List'" <milton-l at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at richmond.edu>>,    "'John
        Milton Discussion List'" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
Message-ID: <006201d354c4$3cf1f750$b6d5e5f0$@cox.net<http://cox.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear All,

Maybe I?m too sensitive, or maybe I misinterpreted it, but I?m insulted by Terrance Lindall?s Milton Portrait.

I do wish that such postings do not find their way into our Milton Discussion List. I do appreciate it though that the Wiki source was credited.

Salwa



Salwa Khoddam, PhD.

Professor of English, Emerita

Oklahoma City University



From: milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu> [mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu>] On Behalf Of Terrance Lindall
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2017 11:37 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
Subject: [Milton-L] Credited Wiki



Dear Guys:

I credited the Wiki source on my Wordpress site and WIX Site. Thanks for pointing out my sloppiness. At the glorious age of 73 one gets a bit lazy.

I used to be a good scholar, original research, solid reasoning and meticulous crediting. Strong suit was logic. My Milton professor said in praise on my final exam that I still have in my archives,  "Milton would have reasoned thus!" Graduated Magna Cum Laude with double majors and a double minor.

I see Wordpress got over 90 views on that one day. Thanks for looking.

Have you seen my latest Milton Portrait:


https://issuu.com/lindall/docs/satan_as_a_black_man_reduced

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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 13:01:41 -0400
From: "Graham, Jean" <graham at tcnj.edu<mailto:graham at tcnj.edu>>
To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at richmond.edu>>
Cc: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
Message-ID:
        <CAH1vFy82RoDRcXVLavyUXSsZos8rx1c+n9rhuaxv97NL7yw2_Q at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAH1vFy82RoDRcXVLavyUXSsZos8rx1c%2Bn9rhuaxv97NL7yw2_Q at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I am also glad that the source is acknowledged, Salwa, and I find the image
offensive.

Jean


Dr. Jean E. Graham
Professor and Associate Chair
Department of English, The College of New Jersey
Bliss Hall 135 (inside Bliss 129, the department office suite)
office hours: M 10-12 and 1-5, T 10-10:50 and 3:30-5, F 10-10:50, and by
appointment



On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Salwa <skhoddam at cox.net<mailto:skhoddam at cox.net>> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Maybe I?m too sensitive, or maybe I misinterpreted it, but I?m insulted by
> Terrance Lindall?s Milton Portrait.
>
> I do wish that such postings do not find their way into our Milton
> Discussion List. I do appreciate it though that the Wiki source was
> credited.
>
> Salwa
>
>
>
> Salwa Khoddam, PhD.
>
> Professor of English, Emerita
>
> Oklahoma City University
>
>
>
> *From:* milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu> [mailto:milton-l-bounces@<mailto:milton-l-bounces@>
> richmond.edu<http://richmond.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Terrance Lindall
> *Sent:* Friday, November 3, 2017 11:37 AM
> *To:* John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
>
>
>
> Dear Guys:
>
> I credited the Wiki source on my Wordpress site and WIX Site. Thanks for
> pointing out my sloppiness. At the glorious age of 73 one gets a bit lazy.
>
> I used to be a good scholar, original research, solid reasoning and
> meticulous crediting. Strong suit was logic. My Milton professor said in
> praise on my final exam that I still have in my archives,  "Milton would
> have reasoned thus!" Graduated Magna Cum Laude with double majors and a
> double minor.
>
> I see Wordpress got over 90 views on that one day. Thanks for looking.
>
> Have you seen my latest Milton Portrait:
>
>
> https://issuu.com/lindall/docs/satan_as_a_black_man_reduced
>
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at richmond.edu<mailto:Milton-L at richmond.edu>
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> https://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>
> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 13:01:41 -0400
From: "Graham, Jean" <graham at tcnj.edu<mailto:graham at tcnj.edu>>
To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at richmond.edu>>
Cc: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
Message-ID:
        <CAH1vFy82RoDRcXVLavyUXSsZos8rx1c+n9rhuaxv97NL7yw2_Q at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAH1vFy82RoDRcXVLavyUXSsZos8rx1c%2Bn9rhuaxv97NL7yw2_Q at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I am also glad that the source is acknowledged, Salwa, and I find the image
offensive.

Jean


Dr. Jean E. Graham
Professor and Associate Chair
Department of English, The College of New Jersey
Bliss Hall 135 (inside Bliss 129, the department office suite)
office hours: M 10-12 and 1-5, T 10-10:50 and 3:30-5, F 10-10:50, and by
appointment



On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Salwa <skhoddam at cox.net<mailto:skhoddam at cox.net>> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Maybe I?m too sensitive, or maybe I misinterpreted it, but I?m insulted by
> Terrance Lindall?s Milton Portrait.
>
> I do wish that such postings do not find their way into our Milton
> Discussion List. I do appreciate it though that the Wiki source was
> credited.
>
> Salwa
>
>
>
> Salwa Khoddam, PhD.
>
> Professor of English, Emerita
>
> Oklahoma City University
>
>
>
> *From:* milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu> [mailto:milton-l-bounces@<mailto:milton-l-bounces@>
> richmond.edu<http://richmond.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Terrance Lindall
> *Sent:* Friday, November 3, 2017 11:37 AM
> *To:* John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
>
>
>
> Dear Guys:
>
> I credited the Wiki source on my Wordpress site and WIX Site. Thanks for
> pointing out my sloppiness. At the glorious age of 73 one gets a bit lazy.
>
> I used to be a good scholar, original research, solid reasoning and
> meticulous crediting. Strong suit was logic. My Milton professor said in
> praise on my final exam that I still have in my archives,  "Milton would
> have reasoned thus!" Graduated Magna Cum Laude with double majors and a
> double minor.
>
> I see Wordpress got over 90 views on that one day. Thanks for looking.
>
> Have you seen my latest Milton Portrait:
>
>
> https://issuu.com/lindall/docs/satan_as_a_black_man_reduced
>
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at richmond.edu<mailto:Milton-L at richmond.edu>
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> https://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>
> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 13:22:14 -0400
From: Margaret Thickstun <mthickst at hamilton.edu<mailto:mthickst at hamilton.edu>>
To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at richmond.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
Message-ID:
        <CAPoRiGgpigpahCeYfEDoy-hX-9zjUq2aZokcgXdPZ9HjjU6DDQ at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAPoRiGgpigpahCeYfEDoy-hX-9zjUq2aZokcgXdPZ9HjjU6DDQ at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

We may all have looked, but I would have to agree with Salwa about this
portrait. It is appalling.

On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Salwa <skhoddam at cox.net<mailto:skhoddam at cox.net>> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Maybe I?m too sensitive, or maybe I misinterpreted it, but I?m insulted by
> Terrance Lindall?s Milton Portrait.
>
> I do wish that such postings do not find their way into our Milton
> Discussion List. I do appreciate it though that the Wiki source was
> credited.
>
> Salwa
>
>
>
> Salwa Khoddam, PhD.
>
> Professor of English, Emerita
>
> Oklahoma City University
>
>
>
> *From:* milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu> [mailto:milton-l-bounces@<mailto:milton-l-bounces@>
> richmond.edu<http://richmond.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Terrance Lindall
> *Sent:* Friday, November 3, 2017 11:37 AM
> *To:* John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>
> *Subject:* [Milton-L] Credited Wiki
>
>
>
> Dear Guys:
>
> I credited the Wiki source on my Wordpress site and WIX Site. Thanks for
> pointing out my sloppiness. At the glorious age of 73 one gets a bit lazy.
>
> I used to be a good scholar, original research, solid reasoning and
> meticulous crediting. Strong suit was logic. My Milton professor said in
> praise on my final exam that I still have in my archives,  "Milton would
> have reasoned thus!" Graduated Magna Cum Laude with double majors and a
> double minor.
>
> I see Wordpress got over 90 views on that one day. Thanks for looking.
>
> Have you seen my latest Milton Portrait:
>
>
> https://issuu.com/lindall/docs/satan_as_a_black_man_reduced
>
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at richmond.edu<mailto:Milton-L at richmond.edu>
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> https://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>
> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>



--
Margaret Thickstun
Jane Watson Irwin Professor of Literature
Chair, Literature and Creative Writing
Hamilton College
198 College Hill Road
Clinton, NY 13323
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End of Milton-L Digest, Vol 132, Issue 4
****************************************


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--
Hannibal Hamlin
Professor of English
The Ohio State University
Author of The Bible in Shakespeare, now available through all good bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199677610.do
164 Annie & John Glenn Ave., 421 Denney Hall
Columbus, OH 43210-1340
hamlin.22 at osu.edu/<http://hamlin.22@osu.edu/>
hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com<mailto:hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com>
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