[Milton-L] Sure...

Nancy Charlton charltonwordorder1 at gmail.com
Thu Nov 2 17:01:43 EDT 2017


If this were on Facebook, that lion of devouring time, I’d give it a Like
and a Share and a ThumbsUp.

Nancy Charlton


On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 1:43 PM Schwartz, Louis <lschwart at richmond.edu>
wrote:

> Since it falls to me from time to time to moderate these discussions, let
> me say a few things:
>
>
> 1) Brendan's complaint about attributions is entirely legitimate in the
> context of an academic discussion list, and Nancy is correct that the
> problem would not have arisen if Terrance had used even a simple and
> informal method of attribution (for example, "as the Wikipedia article on
> .... says, ....").
>
>
> 2) I urge people to keep in mind that the spectrum of political opinions
> on this list is more varied than one might assume.  Please remember that
> before painting with any broad brushes.
>
>
> 3) Political matters, when they are related in one way or another to
> Milton (and canonicity and the problems surrounding cultural appropriation
> can be directly relevant), are perfectly legitimate subjects for discussion
> here, and there's nothing wrong with even vehement disagreement, but I urge
> Terrance and others to avoid using aggressively tendentious and even
> insulting labels when characterizing the positions of those with whom they
> disagree.  It's only likely to lead to more name-calling and a degeneration
> of the discussion to the point at which  it becomes nothing but a battle
> of caricatures.  Fine for a Facebook feed, but not here.
>
>
> Best to all,
>
>
> Louis
>
>
> ======================
> Louis Schwartz
> Professor of English
> Chair, Department of English
> University of Richmond
> Richmond, VA  23173
> (804) 289-8315
> lschwart at richmond.edu
> ------------------------------
> *From:* milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu <milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu> on
> behalf of Nancy Charlton <charltonwordorder1 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 2, 2017 2:46 PM
> *To:* John Milton Discussion List
> *Subject:* Re: [Milton-L] Sure...
>
> It seems to me that this brouhaha might have been avoided by the simple
> courtesy of following the rudiments of documentation  and attribution most
> of us learned in English 102, and later in Intro to Grad Study. Terrance
> could have indicated Wikipedia as his source, and his authorship would not
> have been taken as vainglorious self-seeking.
>
> Nancy harlton
>
> On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Terrance Lindall <tlindall at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Logic is not the issue. You would not understand that. It is a matter of
>> correct use of language.
>>
>> Explanation maybe:
>>
>> I do use Wiki a lot. Maybe that's "appropriation" as per my post.  So sue
>> me! It is not copyrighted. In some cases I wrote the initial articles, such
>> as the one for Glamis Castle or Dr. Arno or Robert Wickenheiser on Wiki.
>> All I am doing here on this list is providing information on a subject to
>> you and not publishing for reputation or commercial purposes like you. You
>> are the ones we have to watch more carefully. Your reputation rises and
>> falls on what you pump out, so better not do anything that is not ENTIRELY
>> ORIGINAL.
>>
>> History will judge all of us. I do not need to make money, and I have
>> great collections. I am happy with that.
>>
>> All of you have appropriated the English language in some fashion. Every
>> time you use a word or expression it is an act of appropriation. When you
>> quote Milton you are appropriating his words for your perceived benefit. So
>> stop quoting him or writing about him. You are appropriating his reputation
>> for your benefit...a sin for sure.
>>
>>  Today, if you are a white person and try to open a Taco restaurant and
>> are not Mexican you are attacked for appropriating culture (that was in the
>> news). White kids cannot go out on Halloween in an ethnic costume without
>> worrying about being criticized for appropriating culture. Contrarily, the
>> English LOVE to have their language appropriated. Ain't that curious? Not
>> really. World rule requires a common language. It may be Chinese when the
>> Progressives destroy the West.
>>
>> From the point of view of the Liberal Progressive Stalinist,  if you are
>> teaching English or Milton and are not directly descended from the English,
>> you should be fired. You are appropriating the cultural asset of the
>> English. If you are an honorable Progressive, PLEASE STOP TEACHING IT. I
>> think that  a lot of you might do just as well teaching Karl Marx or the
>> virtues of Stalin. Or maybe do a class on "The Problem of Lindallism." I
>> can provide the study material.
>>
>> "All stripes and colors!" Is that a virtue of your Progressive
>> "diversity?" I do not necessarily believe that diversity is a virtue.
>> Diversity of values leads to conflict. Look around the world...conflict!
>> Seeing is believing, no logic required. Even Plato knew that Democracies
>> will eventually tear themselves apart. But fortunately we do not have a
>> pure democracy or we would have "perished from the earth" long ago. Oh my
>> God, I stole from Lincoln now! Damn me damn me!
>>
>> Love your hatred of me. Keep it up.
>>
>> I think you should put in a request to bounce me from the list for
>> plagiarism of appropriating Wiki!
>>
>> Best. Terrance
>>
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>>
>
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