[Milton-L] Sure...

Schwartz, Louis lschwart at richmond.edu
Thu Nov 2 16:43:23 EDT 2017

Since it falls to me from time to time to moderate these discussions, let me say a few things:

1) Brendan's complaint about attributions is entirely legitimate in the context of an academic discussion list, and Nancy is correct that the problem would not have arisen if Terrance had used even a simple and informal method of attribution (for example, "as the Wikipedia article on .... says, ....").

2) I urge people to keep in mind that the spectrum of political opinions on this list is more varied than one might assume.  Please remember that before painting with any broad brushes.

3) Political matters, when they are related in one way or another to Milton (and canonicity and the problems surrounding cultural appropriation can be directly relevant), are perfectly legitimate subjects for discussion here, and there's nothing wrong with even vehement disagreement, but I urge Terrance and others to avoid using aggressively tendentious and even insulting labels when characterizing the positions of those with whom they disagree.  It's only likely to lead to more name-calling and a degeneration of the discussion to the point at which  it becomes nothing but a battle of caricatures.  Fine for a Facebook feed, but not here.

Best to all,


Louis Schwartz
Professor of English
Chair, Department of English
University of Richmond
Richmond, VA  23173
(804) 289-8315
lschwart at richmond.edu
From: milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu <milton-l-bounces at richmond.edu> on behalf of Nancy Charlton <charltonwordorder1 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 2, 2017 2:46 PM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Sure...

It seems to me that this brouhaha might have been avoided by the simple courtesy of following the rudiments of documentation  and attribution most of us learned in English 102, and later in Intro to Grad Study. Terrance could have indicated Wikipedia as his source, and his authorship would not have been taken as vainglorious self-seeking.

Nancy harlton

On Thu, Nov 2, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Terrance Lindall <tlindall at gmail.com<mailto:tlindall at gmail.com>> wrote:
Logic is not the issue. You would not understand that. It is a matter of correct use of language.

Explanation maybe:

I do use Wiki a lot. Maybe that's "appropriation" as per my post.  So sue me! It is not copyrighted. In some cases I wrote the initial articles, such as the one for Glamis Castle or Dr. Arno or Robert Wickenheiser on Wiki. All I am doing here on this list is providing information on a subject to you and not publishing for reputation or commercial purposes like you. You are the ones we have to watch more carefully. Your reputation rises and falls on what you pump out, so better not do anything that is not ENTIRELY ORIGINAL.

History will judge all of us. I do not need to make money, and I have great collections. I am happy with that.

All of you have appropriated the English language in some fashion. Every time you use a word or expression it is an act of appropriation. When you quote Milton you are appropriating his words for your perceived benefit. So stop quoting him or writing about him. You are appropriating his reputation for your benefit...a sin for sure.

 Today, if you are a white person and try to open a Taco restaurant and are not Mexican you are attacked for appropriating culture (that was in the news). White kids cannot go out on Halloween in an ethnic costume without worrying about being criticized for appropriating culture. Contrarily, the English LOVE to have their language appropriated. Ain't that curious? Not really. World rule requires a common language. It may be Chinese when the Progressives destroy the West.

>From the point of view of the Liberal Progressive Stalinist,  if you are teaching English or Milton and are not directly descended from the English, you should be fired. You are appropriating the cultural asset of the English. If you are an honorable Progressive, PLEASE STOP TEACHING IT. I think that  a lot of you might do just as well teaching Karl Marx or the virtues of Stalin. Or maybe do a class on "The Problem of Lindallism." I can provide the study material.

"All stripes and colors!" Is that a virtue of your Progressive "diversity?" I do not necessarily believe that diversity is a virtue. Diversity of values leads to conflict. Look around the world...conflict! Seeing is believing, no logic required. Even Plato knew that Democracies will eventually tear themselves apart. But fortunately we do not have a pure democracy or we would have "perished from the earth" long ago. Oh my God, I stole from Lincoln now! Damn me damn me!

Love your hatred of me. Keep it up.

I think you should put in a request to bounce me from the list for plagiarism of appropriating Wiki!

Best. Terrance

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