[Milton-L] Merit and Regicide was Merit, birthright regicide was RE: Not Milton, but a Miltonist in the NYT . . .

Carol Barton, Ph.D., CPCM cbartonphd1 at verizon.net
Wed Aug 3 15:33:23 EDT 2016


No. It just struck me funny, when she was characterized as Satan, to imagine those lines being read, not by Gregory Peck (who was such a good Ahab) or James Earl Jones or someone else with that sort of vocal command being read by Hillary Clinton. It would be funny, read by Trump, too. (Someone’s already done a “take” on Hamlet’s soliloquy as modernized and inflected by the Donald, I think.)

I think there is quite enough invective being spewed everywhere for all of us (and it’s only August!). 

Best to all, 

Carol 


From: Arlene Stiebel 
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 3:11 PM
To: John Milton Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Merit and Regicide was Merit,birthright regicide was RE: Not Milton, but a Miltonist in the NYT . . .

Carol,

When a candidate has been criticized in the press and commentary for how she sounds while speaking in public, such "description" does not appear to be flattering.  But I am very glad to learn that you did not intend it as demeaning.   

All best,

Arlene

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 3, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Carol Barton, Ph.D., CPCM <cbartonphd1 at verizon.net> wrote:


  Descriptive, Arlene—not “insulting,” and certainly not “politically biased”—as I specifically indicated. 

  From: Arlene Stiebel 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 2:15 PM
  To: John Milton Discussion List 
  Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Merit and Regicide was Merit,birthright regicide was RE: Not Milton, but a Miltonist in the NYT . . .

  But Carol, "raspy screech" is clearly an insulting term, and it is clear to whom you must be referring.    I thought we had agreed to leave off political bias from this forum.  May we please refrain from further political comments.  

  Arlene

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 3, 2016, at 10:54 AM, Carol Barton, Ph.D., CPCM <cbartonphd1 at verizon.net> wrote:


    Carrol: it’s just to deprive him of his rule—which is why England then and we now have the impeachment process—but not, in most cases, his life. They deprived Charles of his head not because he was having “a bad hair day,” Carl—but because they proved (to their own satisfaction, anyway) that he had committed treason in a variety of ways. So no: in and of itself, the passage Carrol cites does not justify regicide—though it does point up a significant difference between a divine right king, who had God’s sanction to rule even if he were a horrible tyrant (God sending a scourge upon a wayward people) and a King who rules not simply because it’s his birthright as the Son, but is by merit rais’d, because, like the tribal leaders of old, he has defended and protected his people.

    I did have to smile, though, at the image of one of the candidates uttering the “All is not lost” speech from PL in that raspy screech of hers.

    Best to all, with political affiliation to none (I have no clowns in this circus), 

    Carol Barton

    From: JCarl Bellinger 
    Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 1:32 PM
    To: John Milton Discussion List 
    Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Merit and Regicide was Merit, birthright regicide was RE: Not Milton, but a Miltonist in the NYT . . .

    so the King has a bad hair day and it's off with his head? 

    On Monday, July 25, 2016, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:

      Michael E Bryson: I would like to second James Rovira's hope that this list
      is not about to descend into the "lower deep still threatening to devour"
      that is a discussion of this election and either of these candidates.

      ====

      I agree. We can escape to the political implications of Paradise Lost:

                              . . . .and hast been found
      By merit more than birthright Son of God,-

      Query: Is this not a justification of regicide? If the ruler rules by
      _merit_, than when that merit fails, it is just to deprive him/her of rule?

      Carrol

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