[Milton-L] Merit and Regicide was Merit, birthright regicide was RE: Not Milton, but a Miltonist in the NYT . . .

Arlene Stiebel amstiebel at aol.com
Wed Aug 3 15:11:11 EDT 2016


Carol,

When a candidate has been criticized in the press and commentary for how she sounds while speaking in public, such "description" does not appear to be flattering.  But I am very glad to learn that you did not intend it as demeaning.   

All best,

Arlene

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 3, 2016, at 11:19 AM, Carol Barton, Ph.D., CPCM <cbartonphd1 at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Descriptive, Arlene—not “insulting,” and certainly not “politically biased”—as I specifically indicated.
>  
> From: Arlene Stiebel
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 2:15 PM
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Merit and Regicide was Merit,birthright regicide was RE: Not Milton, but a Miltonist in the NYT . . .
>  
> But Carol, "raspy screech" is clearly an insulting term, and it is clear to whom you must be referring.    I thought we had agreed to leave  off political bias from this forum.  May we please refrain from further political comments. 
>  
> Arlene
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 3, 2016, at 10:54 AM, Carol Barton, Ph.D., CPCM <cbartonphd1 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Carrol: it’s just to deprive him of his rule—which is why England then and we now have the impeachment process—but not, in most cases, his life. They deprived Charles of his head not because he was having “a bad hair day,” Carl—but because they proved (to their own satisfaction, anyway) that he had committed treason in a variety of ways. So no: in and of itself, the passage Carrol cites does not justify regicide—though it does point up a significant difference between a divine right king, who had God’s sanction to rule even if he were a horrible tyrant (God sending a scourge upon a wayward people) and a King who rules not simply because it’s his birthright as the Son, but is by merit rais’d, because, like the tribal leaders of old, he has defended and protected his people.
>> 
>> I did have to smile, though, at the image of one of the candidates uttering the “All is not lost” speech from PL in that raspy screech of hers.
>>  
>> Best to all, with political affiliation to none (I have no clowns in this circus),
>>  
>> Carol Barton
>>  
>> From: JCarl Bellinger
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2016 1:32 PM
>> To: John Milton Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Merit and Regicide was Merit, birthright regicide was RE: Not Milton, but a Miltonist in the NYT . . .
>>  
>> so the King has a bad hair day and it's off with his head? 
>> 
>>> On Monday, July 25, 2016, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>>> Michael E Bryson: I would like to second James Rovira's hope that this list
>>> is not about to descend into the "lower deep still threatening to devour"
>>> that is a discussion of this election and either of these candidates.
>>> 
>>> ====
>>> 
>>> I agree. We can escape to the political implications of Paradise Lost:
>>> 
>>>                         . . . .and hast been found
>>> By merit more than birthright Son of God,-
>>> 
>>> Query: Is this not a justification of regicide? If the ruler rules by
>>> _merit_, than when that merit fails, it is just to deprive him/her of rule?
>>> 
>>> Carrol
>>> 
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