[Milton-L] response to Richard Strier, et al, on Greenblatt

Matthew Jordan matthewjorda at gmail.com
Wed Sep 16 19:45:01 EDT 2015


C'mon: we're talking about an encounter with the Kristevan chora....

On 17 September 2015 at 00:44, Matthew Jordan <matthewjorda at gmail.com>
wrote:

> BTW I meant "rapt" or "enrapt": got caught between that, "enraptured" and
> "enwrapped," I think.....
>
> On 17 September 2015 at 00:40, Margie <mthickst at hamilton.edu> wrote:
>
>> I use reading aloud activities (and group oral exams) to teach PL. Anyone
>> coming to Murfreesboro can hear all about it. Anyone not coming who's
>> interested should just contact me.
>>  --Margie
>> (Crystal--I'm just down the Thruway!)
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 7:26 PM, Matthew Jordan <matthewjorda at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I - and as far as I'm aware, my co-students - certainly read PL on our
>> own, in the 80s. I was advised to read it aloud; the first go took much of
>> two days. That's not to say that I read it with Empsonian rigour or
>> inventiveness...
>>
>> Then again, I may have had a head start: my Dad did once come home from
>> work to find me and a couple of friends from Nursery School gazing wrapt at
>> my Mum, in Oxford cap and gown, distracting herself from the tedium of
>> child-minding by teaching us a class on Milton - or at least, reading aloud
>> from him....
>>
>> Best, Matt
>>
>> On 16 September 2015 at 22:21, Richard A. Strier <rastrier at uchicago.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the comment and history, but I am skeptical about one claim.
>>> I do not believe that your students in the '80's actually could read PL on
>>> their own, with no help except historical and critical contextualization.
>>> Maybe they were better at faking it, but the poem is not easy, on first
>>> acquaintance, for ANYONE to read.  So again -- though I may indeed be
>>> mistaken -- think that the contrast is being overdrawn.
>>>
>>> RS
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [
>>> milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] on behalf of Crystal L Bartolovich
>>> [clbartol at syr.edu]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2015 12:20 PM
>>> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
>>> Subject: [Milton-L] response to Richard Strier, et al, on Greenblatt
>>>
>>> Totally agree with Richard that Greenblatt appears to give up too easily
>>> in that piece.
>>>
>>> But, on the other hand, I must admit that I have had to shift the
>>> teaching
>>> of my upper division Milton class considerably over the years. When I
>>> first started teaching as a grad student in the 1980s, I could presume
>>> that most students could get Shakespeare AND Milton on their own and so I
>>> spent class time only on broader critical and historical issues.  I
>>> definitely cannot make that assumption with Milton now or an alarming
>>> number of students would fail.
>>>
>>> Even honors students truly cannot read Milton at first AT ALL.  So, at
>>> the
>>> beginning of the term, I have to have the students read a few lines out
>>> loud and venture to say what they mean‹ every student, in turn, in every
>>> class.  THIS IS REALLY REALLY HARD for my students (who are not U Chicago
>>> undergrads, admittedly) to do, but between this rigorous in-class work,
>>> and ample paraphrasing homework, most of them DO get it, and we can spend
>>> time on more sophisticated questions of interpretation.
>>>
>>> But some of them require very considerable coaching during office hours
>>> until the very end, and a few fail.  So I don¹t think that the diagnosis
>>> of less verbal facility is false, but rather that there are antidotes
>>> other than throwing in the towel and letting them make films or
>>> whatever‹and that those other remedies are more valuable.
>>>
>>> By far I get the most notes of appreciation from Milton students, saying
>>> how proud they are that they stuck the course out and how much they
>>> learned.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Milton-L mailing list
>>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
>>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>>>
>>> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Milton-L mailing list
>>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
>>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>>>
>>> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Milton-L mailing list
>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>>
>> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Milton-L mailing list
>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>>
>> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.richmond.edu/pipermail/milton-l/attachments/20150917/3f1c2f57/attachment.html>


More information about the Milton-L mailing list