[Milton-L] forwarded query re. Milton in Max Weber

Matthew Jordan matthewjorda at gmail.com
Fri Sep 11 13:33:46 EDT 2015


Dear All

Wouldn't it be somehow fitting if it came out of Kant's reading of Milton?
cf., of course, Sanford Budick.

Best, Matt

On 11 September 2015 at 17:23, Matthew Jordan <matthewjorda at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear All
>
> It seems to me a little un-Miltonic to envisage, however hypothetically
> and provisionally, going to hell himself. As a paraphrase of Milton's
> general sentiments regarding his God and his duties to Him, however, it
> seems apt and pithy, if perhaps over-simplified: could this be what Weber
> is up to? Just a little earlier, he quotes quite accurately from Paradise
> Lost, btw - tho doesn't fully reference the lines.
>
> Best, Matt
>
> On 11 September 2015 at 15:34, Hannibal Hamlin <hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Someone just noted on FICINO too that the quote (in Weber's German: "Mag
>> ich zur Hölle fahren, aber solch ein Gott wird niemals meine Achtung
>> erzwingen") does not seem to appear in Eibach's essay. Curioser and
>> curioser.
>>
>> Hannibal
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Martin Kuester <
>> kuesterm at staff.uni-marburg.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> Just had a short look at the Eibach essay mentioned in the footnote. The
>>> Milton quote does not seem to be there either. I'll try and check Alfred
>>> Stern's German Milton biography from 1877 or 1879 that Weber mentions, if I
>>> can dig it out of our library.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Martin Kuester
>>>
>>> Am 11.09.2015 um 08:05 schrieb John Hale:
>>>
>>> ​The remark as quoted seems too dismissive for Milton in *De Doctrina,*
>>> who insists more on his own interpretation of Predestination in I. 4 than
>>> on rubbishing the whole idea.
>>>
>>> There seem to be problems also with the number of stages of  translation
>>> and transmission which the quip has gone through.
>>>
>>> Watching with interest, though.
>>>
>>> John Hale
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
>>> <milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu>
>>> <milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu> on behalf of Hannibal Hamlin
>>> <hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com> <hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 10 September 2015 4:21 a.m.
>>> *To:* John Milton Discussion List
>>> *Subject:* [Milton-L] forwarded query re. Milton in Max Weber
>>>
>>> Dear Miltonists,
>>>
>>> On behalf of David Sacks, who posted this query to FICINO, I'm
>>> forwarding his query to you. Is there something like this in the *De
>>> Doctrina*, which seems to be (indirectly, via German) the source?
>>> Weber's quotation has a long and complex afterlife, since a variety of
>>> authors (including apparently Karl Barth) pick up the Milton line without
>>> checking further.
>>>
>>> Hannibal
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> In THE PROTESTANT ETHIC AND THE SPIRIT OF CAPITALISM (trans. Talcott
>>> Parsons), Max Weber offers this quotation as summing up what he calls
>>> "Milton's well-known opinion of the doctrine" of predestination: "Though I
>>> may be sent to Hell for it, such a God will never command my respect."
>>>
>>> The accompanying endnote does not provide a citation to any work by
>>> Milton.  Instead it says: "On Milton's theology see the essay of Eibach in
>>> the THEOL. STUDIEN UND KRITIKEN, 1879.  Macaulay's essay on it...is
>>> superficial. For more detail see the somewhat too schematic six-volume
>>> English work of Masson, and the German biography of Milton which rest upon
>>> it...."
>>>
>>> Parsons, of course, was an eminent sociologist, not a literary scholar.
>>> I'm guessing that he translated the quote attributed to Milton directly
>>> from Weber's German without having a clue as to what Milton himself had
>>> said in English.  Does anyone recognize the quote as coming from something
>>> written by Milton? If not, does anyone have a suggestion about where the
>>> thought--if not the actual words--might be found?  For a variety of
>>> reasons, I'd like to track the it down.
>>>
>>> With best wishes, David
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hannibal Hamlin
>>> Professor of English
>>> The Ohio State University
>>> Author of *The Bible in Shakespeare*, now available through all good
>>> bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at
>>> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199677610.do
>>> Editor, *Reformation*
>>> 164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
>>> Columbus, OH 43210-1340
>>> hamlin.22 at osu.edu/
>>> hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Milton-L mailing listMilton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>>>
>>> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Prof. Dr. Martin Kuester
>>> GD, Marburger Zentrum für Kanada-Studien
>>> Institut für Anglistik und Amerikanistik
>>> Philipps-Universität Marburg
>>> D-35032 Marburg
>>> Tel.: 49 (0) 6421 2824762
>>> Sprechstunde/office hours
>>> <http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iaa/institut/personal/kuester/sprechstunde>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Milton-L mailing list
>>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
>>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>>>
>>> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Hannibal Hamlin
>> Professor of English
>> The Ohio State University
>> Author of *The Bible in Shakespeare*, now available through all good
>> bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at
>> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199677610.do
>> Editor, *Reformation*
>> 164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
>> Columbus, OH 43210-1340
>> hamlin.22 at osu.edu/
>> hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Milton-L mailing list
>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>>
>> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.richmond.edu/pipermail/milton-l/attachments/20150911/9a804cb5/attachment.html>


More information about the Milton-L mailing list