[Milton-L] forwarded query re. Milton in Max Weber

Matthew Jordan matthewjorda at gmail.com
Fri Sep 11 12:23:00 EDT 2015


Dear All

It seems to me a little un-Miltonic to envisage, however hypothetically and
provisionally, going to hell himself. As a paraphrase of Milton's general
sentiments regarding his God and his duties to Him, however, it seems apt
and pithy, if perhaps over-simplified: could this be what Weber is up to?
Just a little earlier, he quotes quite accurately from Paradise Lost, btw -
tho doesn't fully reference the lines.

Best, Matt

On 11 September 2015 at 15:34, Hannibal Hamlin <hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Someone just noted on FICINO too that the quote (in Weber's German: "Mag
> ich zur Hölle fahren, aber solch ein Gott wird niemals meine Achtung
> erzwingen") does not seem to appear in Eibach's essay. Curioser and
> curioser.
>
> Hannibal
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 3:13 AM, Martin Kuester <
> kuesterm at staff.uni-marburg.de> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Just had a short look at the Eibach essay mentioned in the footnote. The
>> Milton quote does not seem to be there either. I'll try and check Alfred
>> Stern's German Milton biography from 1877 or 1879 that Weber mentions, if I
>> can dig it out of our library.
>>
>> Best,
>> Martin Kuester
>>
>> Am 11.09.2015 um 08:05 schrieb John Hale:
>>
>> ​The remark as quoted seems too dismissive for Milton in *De Doctrina,*
>> who insists more on his own interpretation of Predestination in I. 4 than
>> on rubbishing the whole idea.
>>
>> There seem to be problems also with the number of stages of  translation
>> and transmission which the quip has gone through.
>>
>> Watching with interest, though.
>>
>> John Hale
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
>> <milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu>
>> <milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu> on behalf of Hannibal Hamlin
>> <hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com> <hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 10 September 2015 4:21 a.m.
>> *To:* John Milton Discussion List
>> *Subject:* [Milton-L] forwarded query re. Milton in Max Weber
>>
>> Dear Miltonists,
>>
>> On behalf of David Sacks, who posted this query to FICINO, I'm forwarding
>> his query to you. Is there something like this in the *De Doctrina*,
>> which seems to be (indirectly, via German) the source? Weber's quotation
>> has a long and complex afterlife, since a variety of authors (including
>> apparently Karl Barth) pick up the Milton line without checking further.
>>
>> Hannibal
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> In THE PROTESTANT ETHIC AND THE SPIRIT OF CAPITALISM (trans. Talcott
>> Parsons), Max Weber offers this quotation as summing up what he calls
>> "Milton's well-known opinion of the doctrine" of predestination: "Though I
>> may be sent to Hell for it, such a God will never command my respect."
>>
>> The accompanying endnote does not provide a citation to any work by
>> Milton.  Instead it says: "On Milton's theology see the essay of Eibach in
>> the THEOL. STUDIEN UND KRITIKEN, 1879.  Macaulay's essay on it...is
>> superficial. For more detail see the somewhat too schematic six-volume
>> English work of Masson, and the German biography of Milton which rest upon
>> it...."
>>
>> Parsons, of course, was an eminent sociologist, not a literary scholar.
>> I'm guessing that he translated the quote attributed to Milton directly
>> from Weber's German without having a clue as to what Milton himself had
>> said in English.  Does anyone recognize the quote as coming from something
>> written by Milton? If not, does anyone have a suggestion about where the
>> thought--if not the actual words--might be found?  For a variety of
>> reasons, I'd like to track the it down.
>>
>> With best wishes, David
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --
>> Hannibal Hamlin
>> Professor of English
>> The Ohio State University
>> Author of *The Bible in Shakespeare*, now available through all good
>> bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at
>> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199677610.do
>> Editor, *Reformation*
>> 164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
>> Columbus, OH 43210-1340
>> hamlin.22 at osu.edu/
>> hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> Prof. Dr. Martin Kuester
>> GD, Marburger Zentrum für Kanada-Studien
>> Institut für Anglistik und Amerikanistik
>> Philipps-Universität Marburg
>> D-35032 Marburg
>> Tel.: 49 (0) 6421 2824762
>> Sprechstunde/office hours
>> <http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb10/iaa/institut/personal/kuester/sprechstunde>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Hannibal Hamlin
> Professor of English
> The Ohio State University
> Author of *The Bible in Shakespeare*, now available through all good
> bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at
> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199677610.do
> Editor, *Reformation*
> 164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
> Columbus, OH 43210-1340
> hamlin.22 at osu.edu/
> hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com
>
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