[Milton-L] Adam ate of . . . the wrong Tree!

Richard A. Strier rastrier at uchicago.edu
Mon Nov 17 16:10:56 EST 2014


I like the point about extra space in heaven.  Other planets available too.  But why assume that future humans would not reproduce, since this is part of their "job," and is one of the things that distinguishes them/us from angels?


________________________________
From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] on behalf of Michael Gillum [mgillum at unca.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:03 PM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Adam ate of . . . the wrong Tree!

About the Malthusian problem--

"Your bodies may at last turn all to Spirit,
Improv'd by tract of time, and wingd ascend
Ethereal, as wee, or may at choice
Here or in Heav'nly Paradises dwell;" [ 5.500 ]
--So, the evolved future humans will have access to Heaven, which is huge compared to Earth and seems to have lots of unoccupied territory. Also, I suppose the spiritualized future humans will longer reproduce, just as angels do not reproduce.
Michael

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Richard A. Strier <rastrier at uchicago.edu<mailto:rastrier at uchicago.edu>> wrote:
Would that have raised a Malthusian problem?  A and E and all the progeny and their progeny's progeny, etc forever?

Also-- how are the angels continually raised in status?  Seems like they stay where they are.



From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu> [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu>] on behalf of Stella Revard [srevard at siue.edu<mailto:srevard at siue.edu>]
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 2:11 PM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Adam ate of . . . the wrong Tree!

And the clear answer, Richard, is that "immortality" means deathlessness:  Adam and Eve, had they not fallen, would never have died, but like angels been continually raised in status and brought to greater knowledge and fuller being.  (Raphael's speculative account of humans ascending to angelic status, still presumably able to eat and digest fruit completely without waste or corruption, is relevant but not at issue in Book 11.)  I don't see how Milton could have made it any clearer, at least for readers who like Jameela actually DO read what Milton wrote and see that he had thought matters through and stated them as plainly as the complicated and tangled Scriptural authorities would allow.  In the opening lines of the poem, "brought Death into the world" states matters clearly and simply; and the lines Jameela quotes give some detail in which Milton is thinking straightforwardly about fallen human physiology of eating, drinking, digesting, crapping, and so on. "Corruption" is given a very closeup and literal meaning here.  (For an obsessed variant of this, see Swift's Gulliver:  Swift is outraged and disgusted whereas Milton is matter-of-fact.)





On 11/17/14, "Richard A. Strier" <rastrier at uchicago.edu<mailto:rastrier at uchicago.edu>> wrote:
But the question is what "immortality" means here.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 17, 2014, at 11:23 AM, "Jameela Lares" <jameela.lares at usm.edu<mailto:jameela.lares at usm.edu>> wrote:
>
> PL does say something about pre- and postlapsarian diet.
>
> But longer in that Paradise to dwell,
> The Law I gave to Nature him forbids:
> Those pure immortal Elements that know
> No gross, no unharmoneous mixture foule,
> Eject him tainted now, and purge him off
> As a distemper, gross to aire as gross,
> And mortal food, as may dispose him best
> For dissolution wrought by Sin, that first
> Distemperd all things, and of incorrupt
> Corrupted.  I at first with two fair gifts
> Created him endowd, with Happiness
> And Immortalitie: that fondly lost,
> This other serv’d but to eternize woe. . . .
> (PL 11:48-60)
>
> Jameela Lares
> Professor of English
> The University of Southern Mississippi
> 118 College Drive, #5037
> Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
> 601 266-4319<tel:601%20266-4319> ofc
> 601 266-5757<tel:601%20266-5757> fax
>
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu>
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>
> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/

_______________________________________________
Milton-L mailing list
Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu>
Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/

_______________________________________________
Milton-L mailing list
Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu>
Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.richmond.edu/pipermail/milton-l/attachments/20141117/9c0aebb0/attachment.html>


More information about the Milton-L mailing list