[Milton-L] An antidote . . .

JD Fleming jfleming at sfu.ca
Thu Apr 17 18:20:55 EDT 2014


By the "received ideas" in this area I mean e.g. and i.a. assumptions of a standing need for moral fumigation where sexuality is concerned. Not only do such assumptions arise only after the Fall, in PL; they are a significant part of the content and meaning of the fall. Thus not a turn from "lovemaking" to "[unmentionable]ing"; but the very emergence of such an opposition, such a notion of a turnable turn. jdf 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Richard A. Strier" <rastrier at uchicago.edu> 
To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu> 
Sent: Thursday, 17 April, 2014 09:18:37 
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] An antidote . . . 


Dear Professor Fleming, 

Please elaborate on what you see as the challenge "that PL presents to received ideas about sexuality and morality." I find this intriguing. Is it the idea that happy and fully consummated sex is a good thing, and not a sign of fallenness? (As far as I know, M is the ONLY writer in world history who explicitly presented consummated sex before the fall -- as a fact, not a possibility -- and an ongoing sex-life as unfallen.) 





RS 


From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] on behalf of JD Fleming [jfleming at sfu.ca] 
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 11:07 AM 
To: John Milton Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] An antidote . . . 




Yes. The interest of this whole issue, it seems to me, is the intensity of the challenge that PL presents to received ideas about sexuality and morality--not the way in which it reproduces or conserves them. JD Fleming 




----- Original Message -----

From: "Matthew Jordan" <matthewjorda at gmail.com> 
To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu> 
Sent: Thursday, 17 April, 2014 08:42:03 
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] An antidote . . . 


I am moved to recall my - let us call it - amusement at all the students of Kate Belsey and Francis Barker who dutifully reproduced their superiors' strictures on "bourgeois marriage" in first books touchingly dedicated to spouses... 




On 17 April 2014 16:10, Carol Barton, Ph.D., CPCM < cbartonphd1 at verizon.net > wrote: 




to all of the salacious images we've been conjuring the past couple of days. This seems to me a wonderful expression of the kind of lovemaking that approaches pre-lapsarian sex in the fallen world--it's not without desire, but it is without lust : 

Poem of the Day: Immortal Sails 
by Alfred Noyes 


Now, in a breath, we'll burst those gates of gold, 
And ransack heaven before our moment fails. 
Now, in a breath, before we, too, grow old, 
We'll mount and sing and spread immortal sails. 

It is not time that makes eternity. 
Love and an hour may quite out-span the years, 
And give us more to hear and more to see 
Than life can wash away with all its tears. 

Dear, when we part, at last, that sunset sky 
Shall not be touched with deeper hues than this; 
But we shall ride the lightning ere we die 
And seize our brief infinitude of bliss, 

With time to spare for all that heaven can tell, 
While eyes meet eyes, and look their last farewell. 

Source: Collected Poems (1947) 
I hope it helps to . . . cleanse the intellectual palate. 

Best to all, 

Carol Barton 










Carol Barton, Ph.D., CPCM 

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY: 
Whenever anyone has offended me, I try to raise my soul so high that the offense cannot reach it. -Rene Descartes, philosopher and mathematician (1596-1650) 
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-- 

J ames Dougal Fleming 
Associate Professor 
Department of English 
Simon Fraser University 
778-782-4713 


Burnaby -- British Columbia -- Canada. 



And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Rev.22:3. 



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Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l 

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-- 

J ames Dougal Fleming 
Associate Professor 
Department of English 
Simon Fraser University 
778-782-4713 


Burnaby -- British Columbia -- Canada. 



And the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Rev.22:3. 


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