[Milton-L] assumptions about the fruit, a question for john leonard

cbartonphd1 cbartonphd1 at verizon.net
Fri Apr 11 11:47:28 EDT 2014


I think there was pot in it, myself, Salwa. (That would explain it turning to ashes when the devils taste it, too.)

;-)

Best to all,

Carol Barton 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S®III

-------- Original message --------
From: jsavoie at siue.edu 
Date:04/11/2014  11:23 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>,John K Leonard <jleonard at uwo.ca> 
Cc: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu> 
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] assumptions about the fruit,	a question for john leonard 

Yes, the delicate phrasing artistically exposes the fallen or, so exquisitely
attuned to the very moment, the falling psychology of the placebo effect.

John Savoie

Quoting John K Leonard <jleonard at uwo.ca>:

> I'll be a sport and answer. I  think Eve thought the forbidden fruit tasted
> different:
>
>                         such delight till then, as seemed,
>    In fruit she never tasted, whether true
>    Or fancied so, through expectation high
>    Of knowledge, nor was godhead from her thought. (9.789-92)
>
> It is Eve's "expectation" of tasting something special that makes the fruit
> "seem" different. I admit that there is an equivocation in the narrator's
> "seemed" and "whether true", but even that can be read as an equivocation as
> to whether these are the best apples (in either of the two  senses that have
> been proposed) that Eve has ever tasted. I do not think that these lines (if
> they are the ones you plan to spring as your "reveal") clinch the case for
> the forbidden tree being a unique specimen of its kind. Even you or I might
> say (and sincerely mean) "that's the best apple I ever tasted."
>
> John Leonard
>
> On 04/11/14, Gregory Machacek <Gregory.Machacek at marist.edu> wrote:
> >   . . . sensing a lull in our recent storm of exchanges . . .
> >
> >
> > May I return to an issue that arose in the course of our discussion?  I had
> made the claim that Satan's "apples" at 9.585 must mean the more general
> "fruits" rather than the species-name for genus malus, because if Eve knew
> the fruit on the forbidden tree as an apple, she would not have needed to be
> brought to the tree itself to know that the fruit the serpent was discussing
> was the one on the forbidden tree.  She could right then have said "Oh, we're
> not allowed to eat apples" (If I'd known my colloquial hypothetical speech
> was to become a subject line for our e-mail exchange, I'd have been more
> careful with my verb choice!)
> >
> >
> > John Leonard rightly pointed out that that argument rested on the
> assumption that "the forbidden tree was the only one of its kind."  He
> indicated that he has "always made the opposite assumption that it was just
> one of many apple trees that was singled out from the others (and other kinds
> of tree) by the simple fact of being prohibited."
> >
> >
> > I have been searching for textual confirmation that one or the other of our
> assumptions is correct, and have shared the various passages from PL that
> seem to me to incline one direction or the other, but have judged each
> passage ultimately inconclusive on the matter.  But now I have found what I
> think is conclusive textual evidence.
> >
> >
> > The reveal will be the more dramatic, though, if John is willing to be a
> sport and answer the following question.
> >
> >
> > Would the apples (as you would have it) on the trees from which Adam and
> Eve may eat have a different taste from the ones on the Tree of the Knowledge
> of Good and Evil?
> >
> >
> > Be careful how you answer.  I see checkmate in two moves.
> >
> >
> > In my glee to think I might triumph over John Leonard in a battle of close
> reading, I almost presume to answer for him, "No, of course not, they're both
> just apples."  But I will let him answer.
> >
> >
> > Greg Machacek
> > Professor of English
> > Marist College
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Milton-L mailing list
> > Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
> > Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
> >
> > Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
> >
> >
>



-------------------------------------------------
SIUE Web Mail


_______________________________________________
Milton-L mailing list
Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.richmond.edu/pipermail/milton-l/attachments/20140411/ec70ebb6/attachment.html>


More information about the Milton-L mailing list