[Milton-L] technical challenges in the excision of s&d from 10 (long, involved post)

jsavoie at siue.edu jsavoie at siue.edu
Thu Oct 24 22:55:40 EDT 2013


For those who enjoy editing games, I'd recommend cutting and recompiling the
double-lp White Album to a single lp.  Sin and Death won't budge from this
reader's book.

What I find so compelling about the Sin and Death episode is how psychologically
realistic it is--the wartime romance, sudden infatuation, the self-love, the
abandoned mother, the abandoned son, the Oedipal hostility between father and
son, the uneasy efforts to please the others to fulfill private desires.  The
theology and allegory in no way diminish the psychological realism.  The
devil--and Sin and Death--are in the details, then multiplied many times over
by the allegory, now writ large.

John Savoie

Quoting Gregory Machacek <Gregory.Machacek at marist.edu>:

> For anyone who him or herself wants to play the game of improving Paradise
> Lost by cutting out the inconsistent-in-representational-mode Sin and Death:
> The cut will start at 229-30.  The Son has returned to heaven and recounts to
> the Father his judgment, Meanwhile Sin and Death...  Here it is:
> Recounted, mixing intercession sweet. Meanwhile ere thus was sinn'd and
> judg'd on EarthWithin the Gates of Hell sat Sin and Death
>
> [Odd expression:  "Meanwhile ere thus" Shouldn't it be one or the other?  Can
> anyone help me get a fix on what just these three words are saying?]
>
> They talk and snuff (I will miss "snuff"; I do like "snuff") and start
> building their bridge, and at 325 they've descried their way to earth
> 			when behold		326Satan in likeness of an angel bright
> steers his Zenith toward them.  He's disguised but they can tell it's him.
> The stuff we probably do want to follow "intercession sweet" starts at 332.
> "He after Eve seduc't unminded slunk."  But as phrased, it grammatically
> depends on the lines where Sin and Death can recognize their parent;  the
> pronoun "he" needs that as a referent.  Otherwise, 332-346 should all be in.
>  It recounts what Satan did between seducing Eve and the judgment.
> [One thing that's odd, though, that I'm noticing for the first time is
> 341-345.  It says that Satan fled when the Son came to judge (which we know
> was at evening time), but then came back at night and heard from Adam and
> Eve's "sad discourse" that his own doom would be in the future.  But the poem
> doesn't narrate that "sad discourse" until much later: 720ff.  Is this a
> known glitch in the poem?  Milton is having to manage lots of "meanwhiles,"
> with action in heaven, on earth, and with two sets of agents in Chaos, but
> 341-5 seems weirdly proleptic.]
> A discordance in lines 346-7 perhaps suggest the late-composition theory.
>  Line 346 say of Satan, "to hell he now returned," but line 347 backs us up
> to the foot of Chaos and S & D's bridge, for a conversation with them.
> He has a conversation with them, dismisses them, continues on his journey.
>  There's another odd bit when he reaches the gate (418) he finds it desolate
> because those appointed to keep it had "flown to the upper world."  It hardly
> feels like we should need to be told that, having as recently as 411 been
> told so, particularly that he's finding it that way; duh, you just said
> farewell to the guards well outside the gate and going the opposite
> direction.  Anyway, there are also other guards (devils, I don't think we
> knew about them) who have fled inward, to Pandaemonium.  Satan sneaks in
> there, reveals himself.  His speech to the devils mentions Sin and Death at
> 473 and 490 [Also odd, he talks like they know who S&D are, but
> he'd forgotten them prior to his encounter; had they not? and does he now
> know they'd not?].  The devils turn to snakes.  At 585 a "Meanwhile" has
> moved Sin and Death to Paradise.  At 617, th'Almighty sees them and comments
> on how they and the devils think He's let them free to misrule the earth, but
> they're in fact there just to lick up the pollution of man's sin.  The angels
> sing halleluiah, God's decrees are righteous.
> It's going to take a lot of doing to trim them from this book.
>
>
> Greg Machacek
> Professor of English
> Marist College



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