[Milton-L] Utterly Off Topic . . .

Watt, James jwatt at butler.edu
Thu Jul 25 11:24:43 EDT 2013

Thank you, Jeffery.

I should have remembered that "Johannine" refers to the Evangelist and only secondarily to the prophet. But the influence on the original Window (of which we have no record other than the one of its hasty removal) was definitely prophetic in origin, specifically owing to Joachim of Fiore's speculations about the imminent arrival of the Age of the Spirit.

Thanks for your reply anyway & I'm sorry to have sent you on an internet goose-chase, although you did get to look at the replacement window ;)

From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] on behalf of Horace Jeffery Hodges [horacejeffery at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:43 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Utterly Off Topic . . .

Margaret Arnold: Thanks.

Jim Watt: Thanks, also. Sorry to be so late responding -- I've been out all day. I finally had some time to inspect the Western Rose Window and see that it concerns the Revelation of Saint John. The expression "Johannine Theology" usually refers to the Gospel of John. The Greek style and the theological focus of the two works are very different, and most New Testament scholars believe the two works are by very different authors.

What the two have in common is a concern with high Christology, and they share this concern with the Book of Hebrews, but they handle the Christology differently. The Gospel appeals to Logos Christology, Revelation to angel Christology, and Hebrews to Melchizedekian Christology. There might be a lot to say about these three and how they were reconciled with each other, but by the 13th century Revelation would have had a lot of theological reflection applied to it, so I'd guess -- in my ignorance -- that one can't draw direct links between a passage in Revelation and a scene in the stained glass of the Rose Window.

A bit like evaluating links between a biblical passage and some lines in Paradise Lost.


On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:30 AM, Watt, James <jwatt at butler.edu<mailto:jwatt at butler.edu>> wrote:
Congratulations Jeffery, or, more properly congratulations to your daughter. If I were still teaching Milton, I'd have been sure to include on my syllabus the fact that learning it might lead you to win a trip to the other side of the world.

Johannine theology!  Yes. What's your general 'take' (in a couple of paragraphs). I'm interested b/c I think it probably influenced the 'program' of stained glass windows in the Sainte Chapelle. (Esp. the Western Rose [which, after Louis's embarrassing failure in the Holy Land, was expunged.)

Jim Watt
Prof. Emeritus
Butler University
now in Durango CO (no. not the University)

jwatt at butler.edu<mailto:jwatt at butler.edu>
From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu> [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu>] on behalf of Horace Jeffery Hodges [horacejeffery at gmail.com<mailto:horacejeffery at gmail.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 4:16 PM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: [Milton-L] Utterly Off Topic . . .

Allow me to post this link for the general astonishment of all even though it has almost nothing to do with Milton:


My daughter did mention, however, that reading Paradise Lost with me had helped her remember the word "chaos," an answer to one of the questions . . .

Jeffery Hodges

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