[Milton-L] Milton-L Digest, Vol 72, Issue 6

Matthew Jordan matthewjorda at gmail.com
Mon Nov 19 01:02:05 EST 2012


Thanks, Jim, Jameela.

Vienna of the lC19-eC20 was, of course, an extraordinary intellectual
hothouse, relatively small and full of coffee-houses and the like -  not
unlike, I fancy, Milton's London. If Milton were relatively common currency
among intellectuals there it might make for a fascinating book. A basis for
starting out might be (one of the books I may never be able to fit into my
life), Wittgenstein's Vienna; and Wittgenstein's Vienna Revisited, by Allan
Janik and Stephen Toulmin.

Idly googling, with the hunch that something would come up for Wittgenstein
+ Milton (if nothing else because W famously had a spat with Leavis about
what on earth the latter was talking about) I came across this, cited in
Ray Monk, Wittgenstein: The Duty of Genius 568: [actually Amazon won't let
me lift the longish text, but it includes the lines, regarding his problems
with the idea of Shakespeare's greatness....]: "It takes the authority of a
Milton to really convince me. I take it for granted that he was
incorruptible." - the words of a man to whom Milton was a deeply familiar
cultural "touchstone"? . . .

Best

Matt




On 18 November 2012 22:25, Jameela Lares <Jameela.Lares at usm.edu> wrote:

> I'm interested!  I've made a note of it.  Thanks.
>
> Jameela Lares
> Professor of English
> The University of Southern Mississippi
> 118 College Drive, #5037
> Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
> 601 266-4319 ofc
> 601 266-5757 fax
> ________________________________________
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [
> milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] on behalf of Matthew Jordan [
> matthewjorda at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:44 PM
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Milton-L Digest, Vol 72, Issue 6
>
> Btw, for anyone interested in the reference, it's the Standard Edition of
> Freud Vol 11: 245.
>
> Matt
>
> On 18 Nov 2012, at 18:26, Carrol Cox wrote:
>
> > Adam & Eve often appeared  in cartoons in popular magazines. In fact such
> > cartoons probably have been a major source of popular conceptions of
> Eden.
> >
> > Carrol
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [mailto:milton-l-
> >> bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of James Rovira
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:37 AM
> >> To: John Milton Discussion List
> >> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Milton-L Digest, Vol 72, Issue 6
> >>
> >> Klimt was Austrian... particularly, Viennese.  The Eve painting was
> among
> > his very
> >> last, as he died before he could finish it.  He doesn't do Biblical
> > subjects very often
> >> at all -- there's Judith and the Head of Holofernes, this one, and
> Judith
> > II that
> >> seem to be explicitly about Biblical subjects.  The Klimt website seems
> > more
> >> inclined to attribute influence to his models themselves; it could be
> this
> > subject
> >> was called Eve only because of her wide hips (mother of all the living)
> > and long,
> >> flowing hair.  He had been attacked for "pornography" by critics in his
> > own
> >> country -- retreating Nazis destroyed his three faculty paintings over
> 20
> > years
> >> after his death -- so it could be he chose to identify this subject with
> > Eve to divert
> >> some of this criticism.
> >>
> >> It'd be difficult to make a serious argument for Miltonic influence, I
> > think, and
> >> once we start talking about general influence we leave ourselves open to
> > the
> >> possibility of the general influence of many different artists and
> > authors, especially
> >> for figures like Adam and Eve.  But it's an interesting rabbit to
> chase...
> >>
> >>
> >> Jim R
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Aaron Drucker <penandpaper at me.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>      I'm a tremendous fan of speculation.  (It's kind of what keeps many
> > of us
> >> that are employed in continued employment.)  And I've always been on the
> > fence
> >> about Milton's influence on the tradition in toto.  Certainly it appears
> > he codified a
> >> lot of (particularly Protestant) tradition of the Garden story, but
> > material art (and,
> >> incidentally, the religious traditions from which Milton derived his
> > interpretation of
> >> the story) reflects these themes for centuries before and (without
> > significant
> >> alteration in the artistic tradition) after Milton's masterpiece.
> >>
> >>      I guess my real question comes down to which mode and particularly
> >> anxious influence Klimt (and similar artists) derive their may
> depictions
> > of Adam,
> >> Eve, "the Snake," &c.  Is it the late-medieval artistic tradition and
> the
> > Protestant
> >> milieu, or is it something more specific (like a great love of Milton's
> > poetry)?  I'm
> >> always hesitant to make claims when there is a strong competing
> tradition
> > within
> >> an artist's own wheelhouse.  To me, this is a great excuse to start
> > reading Klimt's
> >> letters, diaries, notes, &c.  Great fun!  And a grant to study in (where
> > is Klimt
> >> from again?  who has his papers? -- wherever that is!).
> >>
> >>      Smiles,
> >>      AD
> >>
> >
> >
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