[Milton-L] RE: Milton-L Digest, Vol 52, Issue 22

bradley fox brfox at hotmail.com
Thu Mar 24 16:24:29 EDT 2011


Re: Samson Agonistes (if you wanted to expand your list to other late Milton poems), don't forget All Passion Spent by V. Sackville-West (1931?).

Brad Fox 



> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:00:19 -0400
> From: milton-l-request at lists.richmond.edu
> Subject: Milton-L Digest, Vol 52, Issue 22
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Milton-L Digest, Vol 52, Issue 20 (Christopher Baker)
>    2. Re: PL in contemporary usage (Carl Bellinger)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:02:09 -0400
> From: "Christopher Baker" <Christopher.Baker at armstrong.edu>
> Subject: [Milton-L] Re: Milton-L Digest, Vol 52, Issue 20
> To: <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID: <4D89EF58.C4B9.0099.0 at armstrong.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Thanks to all who responded to my query on PL and usage for their
> helpful replies.
> Chris Baker 
> 
> Dr. Christopher Baker
> Professor of English
> Department of Languages, Literature and Philosophy
> Armstrong Atlantic State University
> 11935 Abercorn Street
> Savannah, Georgia 31419
> 912.344.3188 ofc
> 912.344.3494 fax
>  
> 
> 
> >>> <milton-l-request at lists.richmond.edu> 3/22/2011 12:00 PM >>>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Milton-L digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. PL in contemporary usage (Christopher Baker)
>    2. Re: PL in contemporary usage (Shoulson, Jeffrey)
>    3. Re: PL in contemporary usage (Gregory Machacek)
>    4. Re: PL in contemporary usage (John Leonard)
>    5. Re: PL in contemporary usage (Ross Leasure)
>    6. Re: PL in contemporary usage (Nancy Charlton)
>    7. milton in colonial boston (PAULA LOSCOCCO)
>    8. RE: milton in colonial boston (Judith H. Anderson)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:14:40 -0400
> From: "Christopher Baker" <Christopher.Baker at armstrong.edu>
> Subject: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> To: <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID: <4D874F40.C4B9.0099.0 at armstrong.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> "Pandemonium" (1.756) and "all hell broke loose" (4.918) are perhaps
> the most famous of Milton's coinages in Paradise Lost, while "His Dark
> Materials" (Pullman),  "Darkness Visible" (Styron), "In Dubious Battle"
> (Steinbeck), and "Precious Bane" (Mary Webb) are book titles taken from
> the epic.  Is there a convenient list somewhere (or the memories of list
> members) that would provide other words, phrases, or titles taken from
> PL?  I am preparing a brief advertisement for a short course on PL; any
> help would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Chris Baker  
> 
> Dr. Christopher Baker
> Professor of English
> Department of Languages, Literature and Philosophy
> Armstrong Atlantic State University
> 11935 Abercorn Street
> Savannah, Georgia 31419
> 912.344.3188 ofc
> 912.344.3494 fax
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:28:24 -0400
> From: "Shoulson, Jeffrey" <jshoulson at mail.as.miami.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID: <D42EF482-BC2D-4B0A-A7AA-08AE7F0AB10D at mail.as.miami.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I'm not sure whether this particular question is directly covered
> there, but you might want to check out Laura Knopper's and Greg
> Semenza's edited collection on Milton in Popular Culture.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeffrey S. Shoulson, Ph. D.
> Associate Professor of English and Judaic Studies
> University of Miami
> PO Box 248145
> Coral Gables, FL 33124-4632
> 
> (o) 305-284-5596
> (f) 305-284-5635
> 
> ON LEAVE, AY 2010-11
> Katz Center for Advanced Judaic Studies
> University of Pennsylvania
> 420 Walnut Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19106
> 
> (o) 215-2381290, ext. 413
> 
> jshoulson at miami.edu<mailto:jshoulson at miami.edu>
> www.as.miami.edu/english/people/#jshoulson<http://www.as.miami.edu/english/people/#jshoulson>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 21, 2011, at 1:14 PM, Christopher Baker wrote:
> 
> "Pandemonium" (1.756) and "all hell broke loose" (4.918) are perhaps
> the most famous of Milton's coinages in Paradise Lost, while "His Dark
> Materials" (Pullman),  "Darkness Visible" (Styron), "In Dubious Battle"
> (Steinbeck), and "Precious Bane" (Mary Webb) are book titles taken from
> the epic.  Is there a convenient list somewhere (or the memories of list
> members) that would provide other words, phrases
> , or titles taken from
> PL?  I am preparing a brief advertisement for a short course on PL; any
> help would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Chris Baker
> 
> Dr. Christopher Baker
> Professor of English
> Department of Languages, Literature and Philosophy
> Armstrong Atlantic State University
> 11935 Abercorn Street
> Savannah, Georgia 31419
> 912.344.3188 ofc
> 912.344.3494 fax
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu>
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l 
> 
> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:32:57 -0400
> From: Gregory Machacek <Gregory.Machacek at marist.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<OF19E2EE0E.593D83B8-ON8525785A.00605C26-8525785A.006066D6 at marist.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> The OED has Milton's use of "self-esteem" as the earliest witness.
> 
> Greg Machacek
> Professor of English
> Marist College
> 
> 
> 
>                                                                        
>                                                               
>   From:       "Christopher Baker" <Christopher.Baker at armstrong.edu>    
>                                                               
>                                                                        
>                                                               
>   To:         <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>                            
>                                                               
>                                                                        
>                                                               
>   Date:       03/21/2011 01:17 PM                                      
>                                                               
>                                                                        
>                                                               
>   Subject:    [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage                      
>                                                               
>                                                                        
>                                                               
>   Sent by:    milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu                      
>                                                               
>                                                                        
>                                                               
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Pandemonium" (1.756) and "all hell broke loose" (4.918) are perhaps
> the
> most famous of Milton's coinages in Paradise Lost, while "His Dark
> Materials" (Pullman),  "Darkness Visible" (Styron), "In Dubious
> Battle" (Steinbeck), and "Precious Bane" (Mary Webb) are book titles
> taken
> from the epic.  Is there a convenient list somewhere (or the memories
> of
> list members) that would provide other words, phrases, or titles taken
> from
> PL?  I am preparing a brief advertisement for a short course on PL;
> any
> help would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Chris Baker
> 
> Dr. Christopher Baker
> Professor of English
> Department of Languages, Literature and Philosophy
> Armstrong Atlantic State University
> 11935 Abercorn Street
> Savannah, Georgia 31419
> 912.344.3188 ofc
> 912.344.3494 fax
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu 
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l 
> 
> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:00:26 -0400
> From: John Leonard <jleonard at uwo.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID: <B73BB76D4D9246A5A7BF8B9A8D162A08 at JLeonard>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-
> ASCII; format=flowed;
> 	reply-type=original
> 
> "Hell broke loose" was proverbial before Milton used the phrase.  OED
> cites 
> it from 1600 (Hell 10 gen).
> 
> The OED credits Milton with the first fully developed astronomical
> sense of 
> "space" ("Space may produce new worlds," as in "space: the final
> frontier"), 
> but Lucy Hutchinson and John Evelyn had used this sense before Milton
> in 
> their respective translations of Lucretius (who had used spatium of
> outer 
> space).
> 
> Still on the topic of astronomy, numerous editors since Keightley have
> told 
> us that "save appearances" was a technical scholastic term (which it
> was) 
> and so infer that Raphael's use of the phrase is not mocking, but it is
> 
> still possible that Raphael puts a highbrow term to mocking use and so
> helps 
> to coin the modern colloquial sense.  My own view (for reasons too long
> to 
> go into here) is that that is exactly what Raphael does.
> 
> John Leonard
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Christopher Baker" <Christopher.Baker at armstrong.edu>
> To: <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 1:14 PM
> Subject: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> 
> 
> > "Pandemonium" (1.756) and "all hell broke loose" (4.918) are perhaps
> the 
> > most famous of Milton's coinages in Paradise Lost, while "His Dark 
> > Materials" (Pullman),  "Darkness Visible" (Styron), "In Dubious
> Battle" 
> > (Steinbeck), and "Precious Bane" (Mary Webb) are book titles taken
> from 
> > the epic.  Is there a convenient list somewhere (or the memories of
> list 
> > members) that would provide other words, phrases, or titles taken
> from PL? 
> > I am preparing a brief advertisement for a short course on PL; any
> help 
> > would be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Chris Baker
> >
> > Dr. Christopher Baker
> > Professor of English
> > Department of Languages, Literature and Philosophy
> > Armstrong Atlantic State University
> > 11935 Abercorn Street
> > Savannah, Georgia 31419
> > 912.344.3188 ofc
> > 912.344.3494 fax
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Milton-L mailing list
> > Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu 
> > Manage your list membership and access list archives at 
> > http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l 
> >
> > Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/ 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:47:54 -0400
> From: Ross Leasure <trleasure at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<AANLkTinZ6JUPZfA+rEtDMgWD21Dz=TeUQSYnAS6msByK at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> The OED on-line indicates that it contains 610 quotations from Milton
> providing the first evidence of a word, and some 2149 quotations
> providing
> the first evidence of a particular meaning of a word.  Overall, the
> OED
> contains 12,444 quotations from Milton, 42% of which come from PL.  I'm
> now
> going to see how he measures up to Shakespeare.  I'm pulling for our
> boy.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Christopher Baker <
> Christopher.Baker at armstrong.edu> wrote:
> 
> > "Pandemonium" (1.756) and "all hell broke loose" (4.918) are perhaps
> the
> > most famous of Milton's coinages in Paradise Lost, while "His Dark
> > Materials" (Pullman),  "Darkness Visible" (Styron), "In Dubious
> Battle"
> > (Steinbeck), and "Precious Bane" (Mary Webb) are book titles taken
> from the
> > epic.  Is there a convenient list somewhere (or the memories of list
> > members) that would provide other words, phrases, or titles taken
> from PL?
> >  I am preparing a brief advertisement for a short course on PL; any
> help
> > would be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Chris Baker
> >
> > Dr. Christopher Baker
> > Professor of English
> > Department of Languages, Literature and Philosophy
> > Armstrong Atlantic State University
> > 11935 Abercorn Street
> > Savannah, Georgia 31419
> > 912.344.3188 ofc
> > 912.344.3494 fax
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Milton-L mailing list
> > Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu 
> > Manage your list membership a
> nd access list archives at
> > http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l 
> >
> > Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/ 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> T. Ross Leasure, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Dept. of English
> Salisbury University
> Salisbury MD 21801
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:31:53 -0700
> From: Nancy Charlton <nbcharlton at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID: <4D87A7A9.1090509 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> I've wondered about "confusion worse confounded."  It has the air 
> of a clichΘ in common use, but it may be original to Milton. Any 
> clues?
> 
> Nancy Charlton
> On 3/21/2011 11:47 AM, Ross Leasure wrote:
> > The OED on-line indicates that it contains 610 quotations from 
> > Milton providing the first evidence of a word, and some 2149 
> > quotations providing
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:12:21 -0400 (EDT)
> From: PAULA LOSCOCCO <PAULA.LOSCOCCO at lehman.cuny.edu>
> Subject: [Milton-L] milton in colonial boston
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu 
> Message-ID: <20110321171221.APR44120 at mail.lehman.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Does anyone know of a copy of Milton's 1645 *Poems* in a private
> library in pre-Revolution Boston?  And/or, what libraries had a copy of
> *Milton's Poetical Works* during the same period?  Thank you.  P.
> Loscocco
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 18:35:47 -0400
> From: "Judith H. Anderson" <anders at indiana.edu>
> Subject: RE: [Milton-L] milton in colonial boston
> To: "'John Milton Discussion List'" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID: <005d01cbe818$536072c0$fa215840$@edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> Any leads in Keith Stavely's *Puritan Legacies: "Paradise Lost" and the
> New
> England Tradition, 1630-1890*?
> 
> Judith
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu 
> [mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of PAULA
> LOSCOCCO
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 5:12 PM
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu 
> Subject: [Milton-L] milton in colonial boston
> 
> Does anyone know of a copy of Milton's 1645 *Poems* in a private
> library in
> pre-Revolution Boston?  And/or, what libraries had a copy of *Milton's
> Poetical Works* during the same period?  Thank you.  P. Loscocco
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu 
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l 
> 
> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/ 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu 
> Manage your membership and access list archives at
> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l 
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> 
> End of Milton-L Digest, Vol 52, Issue 20
> ****************************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:33:42 -0400
> From: "Carl Bellinger" <bcarlb at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Message-ID: <00c601cbe988$d75188a0$1fdf7f4c at Qless>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=response
> 
> How about "hard to tell" at 3.575
> 
>                       Thither his course he bends
> Through the calm Firmament; but up or downe
> By center, or eccentric, hard to tell,          [ 3.575 ]
> Or Longitude, ....
> 
> A coinage or a  nice touch of the colloquial?
> 
> 
> 
> is not a Milton coinage here
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Leonard" <jleonard at uwo.ca>
> To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> 
> 
> > "Hell broke loose" was proverbial before Milton used the phrase.  OED 
> > cites it from 1600 (Hell 10 gen).
> >
> > The OED credits Milton with the first fully developed astronomical sense 
> > of "space" ("Space may produce new worlds," as in "space: the final 
> > frontier"), but Lucy Hutchinson and John Evelyn had used this sense before 
> > Milton in their respective translations of Lucretius (who had used spatium 
> > of outer space).
> >
> > Still on the topic of astronomy, numerous editors since Keightley have 
> > told us that "save appearances" was a technical scholastic term (which it 
> > was) and so infer that Raphael's use of the phrase is not mocking, but it 
> > is still possible that Raphael puts a highbrow term to mocking use and so 
> > helps to coin the modern colloquial sense.  My own view (for reasons too 
> > long to go into here) is that that is exactly what Raphael does.
> >
> > John Leonard
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Christopher Baker" <Christopher.Baker at armstrong.edu>
> > To: <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 1:14 PM
> > Subject: [Milton-L] PL in contemporary usage
> >
> >
> >> "Pandemonium" (1.756) and "all hell broke loose" (4.918) are perhaps the 
> >> most famous of Milton's coinages in Paradise Lost, while "His Dark 
> >> Materials" (Pullman),  "Darkness Visible" (Styron), "In Dubious Battle" 
> >> (Steinbeck), and "Precious Bane" (Mary Webb) are book titles taken from 
> >> the epic.  Is there a convenient list somewhere (or the memories of list 
> >> members) that would provide other words, phrases, or titles taken from 
> >> PL? I am preparing a brief advertisement for a short course on PL; any 
> >> help would be appreciated.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Chris Baker
> >>
> >> Dr. Christopher Baker
> >> Professor of English
> >> Department of Languages, Literature and Philosophy
> >> Armstrong Atlantic State University
> >> 11935 Abercorn Street
> >> Savannah, Georgia 31419
> >> 912.344.3188 ofc
> >> 912.344.3494 fax
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Milton-L mailing list
> >> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
> >> Manage your list membership and access list archives at 
> >> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
> >>
> >> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Milton-L mailing list
> > Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
> > Manage your list membership and access list archives at 
> > http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
> >
> > Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/ 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
> Manage your membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
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> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
> 
> End of Milton-L Digest, Vol 52, Issue 22
> ****************************************
 		 	   		  
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