[Milton-L] familiar controversy

Michael Gillum mgillum at unca.edu
Sun Jan 30 15:14:13 EST 2011


Apparently Satan felt resentment before the elevation of the Son. In the
Niphates speech he speaks of the burden of gratitude, "still paying, still
to owe" (4.53). He resented the Father's ontological superiority and his own
status as a created (and therefore beholden) being.

Michael

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:25 AM, JD Fleming <jfleming at sfu.ca> wrote:

> Actually -- and of course this is a familiar controversy -- in PL iii the
> God-Son relationship is presented in what I take to be pretty orthodox terms
> -- Son as the begotten and necessary manifestation of the Father, etc. So
> "as contingent as Satan" would be a strong overstatement. For that matter:
> isn't the Holy Spirit the conversation in which they engage? JD Fleming
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michelle Zappa" <michelleazappa at gmail.com>
> To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 4:49:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Satan and Resentment
>
>
> On the subject of contingent beings, the eternal Christian God, and
> Milton's resentful Satan: what of the Son? The common view of the Biblical
> Christ as fully God, a part of an everlasting triune Godhead, suggests that
> we consider the Son in the same way as the Father - a being who exists
> without beginning or end, and who is therefore above the human understanding
> of "being". However, the Son for Milton, whilst of equal substance to God
> the Father, was nevertheless created; the Son has a beginning.
>
>
> The Son, as we encounter him in Paradise Lost, creates something of an
> ontological paradox. If Satan's primary motive for evil is resentment of
> God's favouritism of the Son, then it is the creation (and subsequent
> favouritism) of the Son that gives life to evil. Conversely, without the
> angels' fall, the Son would not be able to fulfil the task of salvation that
> he is solely able to carry out. The Son, although God, is as much a
> contingent being as Satan.
>
>
>
>
> Shell Z
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29 January 2011 23:19, Horace Jeffery Hodges < jefferyhodges at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> Jim Rovira wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> "Existence is not an attribute of a thing like color and extension: e.g.
> The car is blue. 'Car' is the subject of this sentence and 'blue' is the
> predicate. You would not say, 'the car exists,' however, and make any sense,
> because you assume that the car exists by talking about the car to begin
> with. Existence is assumed by the
> subject of the sentence so does not belong in the predicate."
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeffery Hodges wonders:
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim, might you need to refine this point? Surely we can speak of blue cars
> that do not exist. Or I might insist that the blue car that I'm referring to
> is not imaginary, that it does exist.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeffery Hodges
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> --
> James Dougal Fleming
> Associate Professor
> Department of English
> Simon Fraser University
>
> "to see what is questionable"
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