[Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes

Jameela Lares Jameela.Lares at usm.edu
Fri Jan 14 12:02:37 EST 2011


Hannibal,

I will pass along to my Ph.D. students your invitation for a study of online Bible resources review.

Jameela Lares
Professor of English
The University of Southern Mississippi
118 College Drive, #5037
Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
601 266-4319 ofc
601 266-5757 fax
________________________________________
From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Hannibal Hamlin [hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 9:05 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes

E-sword looks intriguing, but it obviously requires a download. Since one can't see which Bibles are available without downloading, can you  help us out? You mention the Geneva notes, but does it have the Geneva text (and which text, which notes?). I assume it has KJV, but what about other early Bibles? Douai-Rheims? Tyndale? Coverdale? Bishops? The rockhay.org<http://rockhay.org/> site does have links to these. It would be immensely useful if someone were able to review these various online Bible sites, checking texts, editions, and formats, as well as other user issues. As editor of Reformation, let me issue an invitation to anyone who might be interested in doing such a review article, either with an early modern focus or a scope even broader. I'd be most happy to publish it, since I think it would be valuable for scholars in any number of fields.

Since others have extended their recommendations to secondary works, perhaps I'll chime in. There's a long history of books on the English Bible, and for my money most of them are fairly dull reading, reiterating the same relatively unanalysed history of the major Bibles from Tyndale (or perhaps Wycliffe) through King James and then hitting the modern milestones: RV, ASV, RSV, NEB, etc. For this history, David Daniell's The Bible in English is surely the best, most comprehensive, with a couple of reservations. The first is that his history shows signs of the progressivist fallacy (a la Butterworth), given his zeal for Tyndale and his obvious Protestant bias. Some filtering is required. The other is that his scope is so broad, really beyond the reasonable expertise of any single scholar, that there are some errors. But this is probably true even of narrower studies.

Two other authors are, I think, essential for anyone studying the Bible in English: Gerald Hammond and David Norton. Hammond is a scholar who made a frustratingly brief foray into the field of biblical studies, but the result -- The Making of the English Bible -- is far and away the best book of its kind. Rather than rehashing the same old history, Hammond really digs into details of translation, revealing the principles underlying different early (and modern) English Bibles, and assessing in a smart, balanced manner their merits and demerits based on careful close-reading of the texts. You can get a taste of this in his brief chapter in the Alter/Kermode Literary Guide. The one thing about the book that seems dated is the animus against the 1970 New English Bible, which seems to have been at least part of the motivation for Hammond's study. The criticism of NEB seems justified, and is backed up by meticulous analysis, but at this point it seems a bit like flogging a dead horse. (Though the failings of the NEB have if anything only intensified in many more recent "dynamic equivalence" translations.) David Norton probably knows more about the KJV than anyone living. His Textual History of the King James Bible (published as a companion to his New Cambridge Paragraph Bible) is essential and unparalleled. Norton's earlier History of the Bible as Literature (initially published in two volumes, then condensed to a single paperback) is equally essential, especially for those of us who teach "The Bible as Lit" courses. It's a valuable corrective against the uninformed accolades usually loaded on the KJV -- "the noblest composition in the universe," as one groupie put it.

Hannibal




On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:16 PM, C Gribben <crawford.gribben at googlemail.com<mailto:crawford.gribben at googlemail.com>> wrote:
e-Sword is the best of the current free equivalents, I think, and has Calvin, the Geneva Bible notes, and the usual translations and search options, as well as a host of other useful things: www.e-sword.net<http://www.e-sword.net/>



From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu> [mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu>] On Behalf Of Jameela Lares
Sent: 11 January 2011 18:59

To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: RE: [Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes


I don't have paper copies of many of the texts.  Some years back I bought a set of biblical databases with the very evangelical title of "Sword Searcher." It gets revised rather frequently, though always for a fee. I haven't gone through the latest update but nevertheless have at my fingertips numerous older texts, including both the Textus Receptus and the Westcott-Hort texts, the King James, King James with Strong's Links, KingJames 2000, American Standard, Darby, Young's Literal, Tyndale, Bishop's, Geneva, and some others along with numerous evangelical translations in other languages, inclluding Luther's German (probably pre-1960), the Dutch 1637, Diodati's Italian, the Reina-Valera Spanish, and even some translations in Arabic, Chinese, Thai, Russian, and so forth.  It also has numerous out-of-copyright commentaries, including Barnes, Burkitt, Calvin, Clarke, Poole, Spurgeon, and Wesley.  I thus have rough and ready items though not ones I would particularly cite uncrit!
 ically.

Jameela Lares
Professor of English
The University of Southern Mississippi
118 College Drive, #5037
Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
601 266-4319 ofc
601 266-5757 fax
________________________________________
From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu> [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu>] On Behalf Of Mitchell M. Harris [mitchell.harris at augie.edu<mailto:mitchell.harris at augie.edu>]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:15 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes

Dear Jameela, Nancy, Hannibal, and others-

Perhaps I will show my own ignorance here, but I would love to know
what editions (scholarly, facsimile, etc.) each of you trusts with
early modern Bibles. For example, which Tyndale do you use, which
Geneva, which King James, which Bishops, etc.?

I finally tired of walking over to the library every time I wanted to
look at the Geneva edition and bought Lloyd Berry's facsimile edition
of the 1560 Geneva Bible. I'm wondering, however, if there are better
editions out there, and I'd certainly like to know more about Tyndale,
King James, Bishops, and the like.

All the best,
        Mitch Harris

Mitchell M. Harris
Assistant Professor
Department of English
Augustana College
2001 S. Summit Ave.
Sioux Falls, SD 57197
(605) 274-5297
mitchell.harris at augie.edu<mailto:mitchell.harris at augie.edu>

"To stand inquiring right, is not to stray;
To sleep, or run wrong, is."

                                - John Donne



On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:49 PM, Jameela Lares wrote:

> Nancy,
>
> I am happy to see any discussion of the KJV in this its 400th year,
> as I am starting a Ph.D. seminar next week on Milton, Bunyan, and
> the King James Bible.
>
> In the past for such classes, I have used F. F. Bruce's History of
> the Bible in English (Lutterworth, 2003), though this year I am
> using a trade book written by a Miltonist, Gordon Campbell's
> readable Bible: The Story of the King James Version, 1611-2011.  The
> UK amazon site has an entertaining video of of the author: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Story-James-Version-1611-2011/dp/0199557594/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294699561&sr=1-1
> .
>
> I'll be having the students each choose a book and an article to
> report on.  I've already attached my selected bibliography to the
> syllabus, but if anyone wants to list a favorite title, I'm all ears.
>
> Jameela Lares
> Professor of English
> The University of Southern Mississippi
> 118 College Drive, #5037
> Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
> 601 266-4319 ofc
> 601 266-5757 fax
> ________________________________________
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu> [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu>
> ] On Behalf Of Nancy Charlton [nbcharlton at comcast.net<mailto:nbcharlton at comcast.net>]
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:36 PM
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Subject: [Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/opinion/09sun3.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha211
>
> This is the URL for a short and gracious appraisal of the place the
> King James Bible holds in literature and culture. The author Verlyn
> Klinkenborg, concludes:  "Its words are almost never Latinate, and
> its rhythms are never hampered by the literalism that afflicts other
> translations."
>
> I've started and erased half a dozen sentences commenting on this
> and trying to bring it deliberately into the purview of Milton
> studies, but the most original thing I can think of, and I don't
> recall it ever being discussed here, is the question of verbal
> antiquity and archaism in Milton's works.
>
> Many in our day are as ill-equipped as Tyndale's ploughboy to take
> on, say, PL XI.385-422, but few would not be touched by "...took
> their solitary way" or "Earth felt the wound." Milton was generally
> aware of himself as the author or narrator or any piece, but he was
> never preoccupied with his own responses. This he has in common with
> the Bible narrations and even where the poet pours out his soul and
> describes  physiological effects ("I wept") still focus on the
> reason ("...when I remembered Zion.")
>
> Would this be worth a discussion, or a study?
>
> Nancy Charlton
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Hannibal Hamlin
Associate Professor of English
Editor, Reformation
Organizer, The King James Bible and its Cultural Afterlife
http://kingjamesbible.osu.edu/
The Ohio State University
164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
Columbus, OH 43210-1340
hamlin.22 at osu.edu/<http://hamlin.22@osu.edu/>
hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com<mailto:hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com>



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