[Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes

C Gribben crawford.gribben at googlemail.com
Thu Jan 13 10:35:01 EST 2011


Dear Hannibal,

 

E-sword is very useful, though I can't say I use it much. 

 

There is a full list of downloadable Bibles here:
http://www.e-sword.net/bibles.html

 

Commentaries are here: http://www.e-sword.net/commentaries.html 

 

Dictionaries are here: http://www.e-sword.net/dictionaries.html 

 

The Bible list includes the usual modern translations (RV, RSV, NRSV, etc)
as well as a few of the historic translations: Douai-Rheims, KJV (1611
edition as well as more modern editions), Geneva (1587 edition), Bishop's,
various Greek and Hebrew texts, a Vulgate, as well as a wide selection of
modern foreign language texts. Most of the downloads are free! 

 

CG

 

From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
[mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Hannibal Hamlin
Sent: 13 January 2011 15:06
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes

 

E-sword looks intriguing, but it obviously requires a download. Since one
can't see which Bibles are available without downloading, can you  help us
out? You mention the Geneva notes, but does it have the Geneva text (and
which text, which notes?). I assume it has KJV, but what about other early
Bibles? Douai-Rheims? Tyndale? Coverdale? Bishops? The rockhay.org
<http://rockhay.org/>  site does have links to these. It would be immensely
useful if someone were able to review these various online Bible sites,
checking texts, editions, and formats, as well as other user issues. As
editor of Reformation, let me issue an invitation to anyone who might be
interested in doing such a review article, either with an early modern focus
or a scope even broader. I'd be most happy to publish it, since I think it
would be valuable for scholars in any number of fields.

 

Since others have extended their recommendations to secondary works, perhaps
I'll chime in. There's a long history of books on the English Bible, and for
my money most of them are fairly dull reading, reiterating the same
relatively unanalysed history of the major Bibles from Tyndale (or perhaps
Wycliffe) through King James and then hitting the modern milestones: RV,
ASV, RSV, NEB, etc. For this history, David Daniell's The Bible in English
is surely the best, most comprehensive, with a couple of reservations. The
first is that his history shows signs of the progressivist fallacy (a la
Butterworth), given his zeal for Tyndale and his obvious Protestant bias.
Some filtering is required. The other is that his scope is so broad, really
beyond the reasonable expertise of any single scholar, that there are some
errors. But this is probably true even of narrower studies.

 

Two other authors are, I think, essential for anyone studying the Bible in
English: Gerald Hammond and David Norton. Hammond is a scholar who made a
frustratingly brief foray into the field of biblical studies, but the result
-- The Making of the English Bible -- is far and away the best book of its
kind. Rather than rehashing the same old history, Hammond really digs into
details of translation, revealing the principles underlying different early
(and modern) English Bibles, and assessing in a smart, balanced manner their
merits and demerits based on careful close-reading of the texts. You can get
a taste of this in his brief chapter in the Alter/Kermode Literary Guide.
The one thing about the book that seems dated is the animus against the 1970
New English Bible, which seems to have been at least part of the motivation
for Hammond's study. The criticism of NEB seems justified, and is backed up
by meticulous analysis, but at this point it seems a bit like flogging a
dead horse. (Though the failings of the NEB have if anything only
intensified in many more recent "dynamic equivalence" translations.) David
Norton probably knows more about the KJV than anyone living. His Textual
History of the King James Bible (published as a companion to his New
Cambridge Paragraph Bible) is essential and unparalleled. Norton's earlier
History of the Bible as Literature (initially published in two volumes, then
condensed to a single paperback) is equally essential, especially for those
of us who teach "The Bible as Lit" courses. It's a valuable corrective
against the uninformed accolades usually loaded on the KJV -- "the noblest
composition in the universe," as one groupie put it.

 

Hannibal

 



 

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:16 PM, C Gribben <crawford.gribben at googlemail.com>
wrote:

e-Sword is the best of the current free equivalents, I think, and has
Calvin, the Geneva Bible notes, and the usual translations and search
options, as well as a host of other useful things: www.e-sword.net
<http://www.e-sword.net/>  

 

 

 

From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
[mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Jameela Lares
Sent: 11 January 2011 18:59 


To: John Milton Discussion List

Subject: RE: [Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes 

 

I don't have paper copies of many of the texts.  Some years back I bought a
set of biblical databases with the very evangelical title of "Sword
Searcher." It gets revised rather frequently, though always for a fee. I
haven't gone through the latest update but nevertheless have at my
fingertips numerous older texts, including both the Textus Receptus and the
Westcott-Hort texts, the King James, King James with Strong's Links,
KingJames 2000, American Standard, Darby, Young's Literal, Tyndale,
Bishop's, Geneva, and some others along with numerous evangelical
translations in other languages, inclluding Luther's German (probably
pre-1960), the Dutch 1637, Diodati's Italian, the Reina-Valera Spanish, and
even some translations in Arabic, Chinese, Thai, Russian, and so forth.  It
also has numerous out-of-copyright commentaries, including Barnes, Burkitt,
Calvin, Clarke, Poole, Spurgeon, and Wesley.  I thus have rough and ready
items though not ones I would particularly cite uncrit!
 ically.

Jameela Lares
Professor of English
The University of Southern Mississippi
118 College Drive, #5037
Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
601 266-4319 ofc
601 266-5757 fax
________________________________________
From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
[milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Mitchell M. Harris
[mitchell.harris at augie.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:15 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes

Dear Jameela, Nancy, Hannibal, and others-

Perhaps I will show my own ignorance here, but I would love to know
what editions (scholarly, facsimile, etc.) each of you trusts with
early modern Bibles. For example, which Tyndale do you use, which
Geneva, which King James, which Bishops, etc.?

I finally tired of walking over to the library every time I wanted to
look at the Geneva edition and bought Lloyd Berry's facsimile edition
of the 1560 Geneva Bible. I'm wondering, however, if there are better
editions out there, and I'd certainly like to know more about Tyndale,
King James, Bishops, and the like.

All the best,
        Mitch Harris

Mitchell M. Harris
Assistant Professor
Department of English
Augustana College
2001 S. Summit Ave.
Sioux Falls, SD 57197
(605) 274-5297
mitchell.harris at augie.edu

"To stand inquiring right, is not to stray;
To sleep, or run wrong, is."

                                - John Donne



On Jan 10, 2011, at 4:49 PM, Jameela Lares wrote:

> Nancy,
>
> I am happy to see any discussion of the KJV in this its 400th year,
> as I am starting a Ph.D. seminar next week on Milton, Bunyan, and
> the King James Bible.
>
> In the past for such classes, I have used F. F. Bruce's History of
> the Bible in English (Lutterworth, 2003), though this year I am
> using a trade book written by a Miltonist, Gordon Campbell's
> readable Bible: The Story of the King James Version, 1611-2011.  The
> UK amazon site has an entertaining video of of the author:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Story-James-Version-1611-2011/dp/0199557594/re
f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8
<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Story-James-Version-1611-2011/dp/0199557594/r
ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294699561&sr=1-1> &qid=1294699561&sr=1-1
> .
>
> I'll be having the students each choose a book and an article to
> report on.  I've already attached my selected bibliography to the
> syllabus, but if anyone wants to list a favorite title, I'm all ears.
>
> Jameela Lares
> Professor of English
> The University of Southern Mississippi
> 118 College Drive, #5037
> Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
> 601 266-4319 ofc
> 601 266-5757 fax
> ________________________________________
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
[milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
> ] On Behalf Of Nancy Charlton [nbcharlton at comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2011 4:36 PM
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Subject: [Milton-L] KJV in NYTimes
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/opinion/09sun3.html?nl=todaysheadlines
<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/opinion/09sun3.html?nl=todaysheadlines&em
c=tha211> &emc=tha211
>
> This is the URL for a short and gracious appraisal of the place the
> King James Bible holds in literature and culture. The author Verlyn
> Klinkenborg, concludes:  "Its words are almost never Latinate, and
> its rhythms are never hampered by the literalism that afflicts other
> translations."
>
> I've started and erased half a dozen sentences commenting on this
> and trying to bring it deliberately into the purview of Milton
> studies, but the most original thing I can think of, and I don't
> recall it ever being discussed here, is the question of verbal
> antiquity and archaism in Milton's works.
>
> Many in our day are as ill-equipped as Tyndale's ploughboy to take
> on, say, PL XI.385-422, but few would not be touched by "...took
> their solitary way" or "Earth felt the wound." Milton was generally
> aware of himself as the author or narrator or any piece, but he was
> never preoccupied with his own responses. This he has in common with
> the Bible narrations and even where the poet pours out his soul and
> describes  physiological effects ("I wept") still focus on the
> reason ("...when I remembered Zion.")
>
> Would this be worth a discussion, or a study?
>
> Nancy Charlton
>
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>
> Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/

_______________________________________________
Milton-L mailing list
Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
Manage your list membership and access list archives at
http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/

_______________________________________________
Milton-L mailing list
Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
Manage your list membership and access list archives at
http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/ 

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> 
Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3373 - Release Date: 01/11/11


_______________________________________________
Milton-L mailing list
Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
Manage your list membership and access list archives at
http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/




-- 
Hannibal Hamlin
Associate Professor of English
Editor, Reformation
Organizer, The King James Bible and its Cultural Afterlife
http://kingjamesbible.osu.edu/
The Ohio State University
164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
Columbus, OH 43210-1340
hamlin.22 at osu.edu/
hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3376 - Release Date: 01/12/11

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.richmond.edu/pipermail/milton-l/attachments/20110113/4859d7ae/attachment.html


More information about the Milton-L mailing list