[Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation

Amy Carleton carleton.a at husky.neu.edu
Fri Feb 25 17:33:05 EST 2011


Apologies, Judith, I missed that message earlier! I thought I remembered a reference to the catalogue of the ships from the 1932 work--but admittedly, I have not read it in its entirety for some time. 

Best, 
Amy

On Feb 25, 2011, at 4:47 PM, "Judith Herz" <jherz at alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:

> But as Terry Ross pointed out, the passage comes from"Making, Knowing, Judging" published in The Dyers Hand, but first delivered as a lecture in 1956.
>  
> .----- Original Message -----
> From: Amy Carleton
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
> 
> Perhaps The Orators did appear in a later edition (c. 1956), but it first appeared in 1932--John R. Boly provides a useful discussion of it in his 1981 article "W.H. Auden's The Orators: Portraits of the Artist in the    Thirties" in Twentieth Century Literature.
> 
> Amy
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Judith Herz <jherz at alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
> The date is 1956.  So John's initial respons was (as always) right.
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Leonard
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 9:40        AM
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
> 
> If 1932 is right, the date is interesting, for it precedes Eliot's dismissal of Milton's book eleven catalogue as "a solemn game."  Eliot's essay was published in 1935 (misdated 1936 when it first appeared).  I wonder whether Eliot was thinking of Auden (my initial response, when Hannibal mentioned Auden, was that Auden was thinking of Eliot).  But objections to Milton's catalogues go back at least as far as Johnson..
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Amy Carleton
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 5:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
> 
> I believe the Auden piece to which Dr. Hamlin refers is The Orators (1932?).  
> 
> 
> Amy Carleton
> Northeastern University
> 
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Jameela Lares <Jameela.Lares at usm.edu> wrote:
> I hope someone will tell us the title of the Auden poem.
> 
> Lord Peter Wimsey also quotes the catalog of the ships in the original Greek when he is pretending to be a magician.  It's in a short story. I can't remember that title either.
> 
> Jameela Lares
> Professor of English
> The University of Southern Mississippi
> 118 College Drive, #5037
> Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
> 601 266-4319 ofc
> 601 266-5757 fax
> ________________________________________
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Hannibal Hamlin [hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:02 PM
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
> 
> Someone I found very suggestive and useful when teaching The Iliad some years back was Gregory Nagy. His The Best of the Achaeans is excellent, and there's also Homeric Questions, which deals with            questions like oral tradition and myth. I'd also recommend a piece by W.H. Auden (not sure where, off-hand -- perhaps in The Dyer's Hand? -- someone on the list will know) in which he makes a wonderful case for relishing the catalogue of the ships. He says something to the effect that to fail to appreciate this catalogue is to miss something fundamental about Homer's aesthetic.
> 
> Hannibal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Samuel Smith <SSmith at messiah.edu<mailto:SSmith at messiah.edu>> wrote:
> Tony and Jim,
> 
> Both essays are available in a single volume published by            the New York Review of Books, which includes a third essay on Bespaloff's reading by Hermann Broch.  "War and the Iliad," 2005.
> 
> Samuel
> 
> >>> Tony Demarest <tonydemarest at hotmail.com<mailto:tonydemarest at hotmail.com>> 2/24/2011 12:26 PM >>>
> Jim-
> 
> If you can, Simone Weil's essay on the Iliad: a Poem of Force is excellent for revealing a modern appeal; Rachel Bespaloff has written an essay which may in response to Weil's. Both done during WWII, I think.
> 
> Tony
> 
> ________________________________
> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:12:57 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
> From: jamesrovira at gmail.com<mailto:jamesrovira at gmail.com>
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> 
> On a note related to our very interesting discussion of the            Iliad: I'll be teaching the Iliad for the first time this coming Fall in a Comparative Mythology course.  Any suggestions for teaching it?  Suggestions for individual or group activities, recommended approaches, companion texts, other works to pair with it, etc., would all be appreciated.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Jim R
> 
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> --
> Hannibal Hamlin
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