[Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation

Judith Herz jherz at alcor.concordia.ca
Fri Feb 25 16:47:51 EST 2011


But as Terry Ross pointed out, the passage comes from"Making, Knowing, Judging" published in The Dyers Hand, but first delivered as a lecture in 1956.

.----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Amy Carleton 
  To: John Milton Discussion List 
  Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 11:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation


  Perhaps The Orators did appear in a later edition (c. 1956), but it first appeared in 1932--John R. Boly provides a useful discussion of it in his 1981 article "W.H. Auden's The Orators: Portraits of the Artist in the Thirties" in Twentieth Century Literature.


  Amy





  On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Judith Herz <jherz at alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:

    The date is 1956.  So John's initial respons was (as always) right.

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: John Leonard 
      To: John Milton Discussion List 
      Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 9:40 AM
      Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation


      If 1932 is right, the date is interesting, for it precedes Eliot's dismissal of Milton's book eleven catalogue as "a solemn game."  Eliot's essay was published in 1935 (misdated 1936 when it first appeared).  I wonder whether Eliot was thinking of Auden (my initial response, when Hannibal mentioned Auden, was that Auden was thinking of Eliot).  But objections to Milton's catalogues go back at least as far as Johnson..
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Amy Carleton 
        To: John Milton Discussion List 
        Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 5:44 AM
        Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation


        I believe the Auden piece to which Dr. Hamlin refers is The Orators (1932?).   




        Amy Carleton
        Northeastern University


        On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Jameela Lares <Jameela.Lares at usm.edu> wrote:

          I hope someone will tell us the title of the Auden poem.

          Lord Peter Wimsey also quotes the catalog of the ships in the original Greek when he is pretending to be a magician.  It's in a short story. I can't remember that title either.

          Jameela Lares
          Professor of English
          The University of Southern Mississippi
          118 College Drive, #5037
          Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
          601 266-4319 ofc
          601 266-5757 fax
          ________________________________________
          From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Hannibal Hamlin [hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com]
          Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:02 PM

          To: John Milton Discussion List

          Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation


          Someone I found very suggestive and useful when teaching The Iliad some years back was Gregory Nagy. His The Best of the Achaeans is excellent, and there's also Homeric Questions, which deals with questions like oral tradition and myth. I'd also recommend a piece by W.H. Auden (not sure where, off-hand -- perhaps in The Dyer's Hand? -- someone on the list will know) in which he makes a wonderful case for relishing the catalogue of the ships. He says something to the effect that to fail to appreciate this catalogue is to miss something fundamental about Homer's aesthetic.

          Hannibal





          On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Samuel Smith <SSmith at messiah.edu<mailto:SSmith at messiah.edu>> wrote:
          Tony and Jim,

          Both essays are available in a single volume published by the New York Review of Books, which includes a third essay on Bespaloff's reading by Hermann Broch.  "War and the Iliad," 2005.

          Samuel


          >>> Tony Demarest <tonydemarest at hotmail.com<mailto:tonydemarest at hotmail.com>> 2/24/2011 12:26 PM >>>

          Jim-

          If you can, Simone Weil's essay on the Iliad: a Poem of Force is excellent for revealing a modern appeal; Rachel Bespaloff has written an essay which may in response to Weil's. Both done during WWII, I think.

          Tony

          ________________________________
          Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:12:57 -0500
          Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation

          From: jamesrovira at gmail.com<mailto:jamesrovira at gmail.com>
          To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>


          On a note related to our very interesting discussion of the Iliad: I'll be teaching the Iliad for the first time this coming Fall in a Comparative Mythology course.  Any suggestions for teaching it?  Suggestions for individual or group activities, recommended approaches, companion texts, other works to pair with it, etc., would all be appreciated.

          Thank you,

          Jim R


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          --
          Hannibal Hamlin
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