[Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation

Amy Carleton carleton.a at husky.neu.edu
Fri Feb 25 11:10:15 EST 2011


Perhaps The Orators did appear in a later edition (c. 1956), but it first
appeared in 1932--John R. Boly provides a useful discussion of it in his
1981 article "W.H. Auden's The Orators: Portraits of the Artist in the
Thirties" in Twentieth Century Literature.

Amy


On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Judith Herz <jherz at alcor.concordia.ca>wrote:

>  The date is 1956.  So John's initial respons was (as always) right.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* John Leonard <jleonard at uwo.ca>
> *To:* John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 25, 2011 9:40 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
>
> If 1932 is right, the date is interesting, for it precedes Eliot's
> dismissal of Milton's book eleven catalogue as "a solemn game."  Eliot's
> essay was published in 1935 (misdated 1936 when it first appeared).  I
> wonder whether Eliot was thinking of Auden (my initial response, when
> Hannibal mentioned Auden, was that Auden was thinking of Eliot).  But
> objections to Milton's catalogues go back at least as far as Johnson..
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Amy Carleton <carleton.a at husky.neu.edu>
> *To:* John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> *Sent:* Friday, February 25, 2011 5:44 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
>
> I believe the Auden piece to which Dr. Hamlin refers is The Orators
> (1932?).
>
>
> Amy Carleton
> Northeastern University
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Jameela Lares <Jameela.Lares at usm.edu>wrote:
>
>> I hope someone will tell us the title of the Auden poem.
>>
>> Lord Peter Wimsey also quotes the catalog of the ships in the original
>> Greek when he is pretending to be a magician.  It's in a short story. I
>> can't remember that title either.
>>
>> Jameela Lares
>> Professor of English
>> The University of Southern Mississippi
>> 118 College Drive, #5037
>> Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
>> 601 266-4319 ofc
>> 601 266-5757 fax
>> ________________________________________
>> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [
>> milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Hannibal Hamlin [
>> hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:02 PM
>> To: John Milton Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
>>
>> Someone I found very suggestive and useful when teaching The Iliad some
>> years back was Gregory Nagy. His The Best of the Achaeans is excellent, and
>> there's also Homeric Questions, which deals with questions like oral
>> tradition and myth. I'd also recommend a piece by W.H. Auden (not sure
>> where, off-hand -- perhaps in The Dyer's Hand? -- someone on the list will
>> know) in which he makes a wonderful case for relishing the catalogue of the
>> ships. He says something to the effect that to fail to appreciate this
>> catalogue is to miss something fundamental about Homer's aesthetic.
>>
>> Hannibal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Samuel Smith <SSmith at messiah.edu<mailto:
>> SSmith at messiah.edu>> wrote:
>> Tony and Jim,
>>
>> Both essays are available in a single volume published by the New York
>> Review of Books, which includes a third essay on Bespaloff's reading by
>> Hermann Broch.  "War and the Iliad," 2005.
>>
>> Samuel
>>
>> >>> Tony Demarest <tonydemarest at hotmail.com<mailto:
>> tonydemarest at hotmail.com>> 2/24/2011 12:26 PM >>>
>> Jim-
>>
>> If you can, Simone Weil's essay on the Iliad: a Poem of Force is excellent
>> for revealing a modern appeal; Rachel Bespaloff has written an essay which
>> may in response to Weil's. Both done during WWII, I think.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:12:57 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
>> From: jamesrovira at gmail.com<mailto:jamesrovira at gmail.com>
>> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>>
>> On a note related to our very interesting discussion of the Iliad: I'll be
>> teaching the Iliad for the first time this coming Fall in a Comparative
>> Mythology course.  Any suggestions for teaching it?  Suggestions for
>> individual or group activities, recommended approaches, companion texts,
>> other works to pair with it, etc., would all be appreciated.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Jim R
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Hannibal Hamlin
>> Associate Professor of English
>> Editor, Reformation
>> Organizer, The King James Bible and its Cultural Afterlife
>> http://kingjamesbible.osu.edu/
>> The Ohio State University
>> 164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
>> Columbus, OH 43210-1340
>> hamlin.22 at osu.edu/<http://hamlin.22@osu.edu/>
>> hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com<mailto:hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com>
>>
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