[Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation

Terry Ross tross at ubalt.edu
Fri Feb 25 06:14:00 EST 2011


The catalogue of ships is mentioned in Auden's set of "four questions which, could I examine a critic, I should ask him:

'Do you like, and by like I really mean like, not approve of in principle:

1. Long lists of proper names such as the Old Testament genealogies or the Catalogue of Ships in the "Iliad"?

2. Riddles and all other ways of not calling a spade a spade?

3. Complicated verse forms of great technical difficulty, such as Englyns, Drott-Kvaetts, Sestinas, even if their content is trivial?

4. Conscious theatrical exaggeration, pieces of Baroque flattery like Dryden's welcome to the Duchess of Ormond?'

If a critic could truthfully answer 'yes' to all four, then I should trust his judgment implicitly on all literary matters."



This appears at the end of part 2 of Auden’s essay "Making, Knowing and Judging" in *The Dyer's Hand* (pages 47-48 in my rather yellowed Vintage paperback).



Terry

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry Ross                                             tross at ubalt.edu
Program Manager for e-Learning          (410) 837-5078         BC 002C






-----Original Message-----
From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu on behalf of Amy Carleton
Sent: Fri 2/25/2011 5:44 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
 
I believe the Auden piece to which Dr. Hamlin refers is The Orators (1932?).



Amy Carleton
Northeastern University

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Jameela Lares <Jameela.Lares at usm.edu>wrote:

> I hope someone will tell us the title of the Auden poem.
>
> Lord Peter Wimsey also quotes the catalog of the ships in the original
> Greek when he is pretending to be a magician.  It's in a short story. I
> can't remember that title either.
>
> Jameela Lares
> Professor of English
> The University of Southern Mississippi
> 118 College Drive, #5037
> Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
> 601 266-4319 ofc
> 601 266-5757 fax
> ________________________________________
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [
> milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Hannibal Hamlin [
> hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 4:02 PM
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
>
> Someone I found very suggestive and useful when teaching The Iliad some
> years back was Gregory Nagy. His The Best of the Achaeans is excellent, and
> there's also Homeric Questions, which deals with questions like oral
> tradition and myth. I'd also recommend a piece by W.H. Auden (not sure
> where, off-hand -- perhaps in The Dyer's Hand? -- someone on the list will
> know) in which he makes a wonderful case for relishing the catalogue of the
> ships. He says something to the effect that to fail to appreciate this
> catalogue is to miss something fundamental about Homer's aesthetic.
>
> Hannibal
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Samuel Smith <SSmith at messiah.edu<mailto:
> SSmith at messiah.edu>> wrote:
> Tony and Jim,
>
> Both essays are available in a single volume published by the New York
> Review of Books, which includes a third essay on Bespaloff's reading by
> Hermann Broch.  "War and the Iliad," 2005.
>
> Samuel
>
> >>> Tony Demarest <tonydemarest at hotmail.com<mailto:
> tonydemarest at hotmail.com>> 2/24/2011 12:26 PM >>>
> Jim-
>
> If you can, Simone Weil's essay on the Iliad: a Poem of Force is excellent
> for revealing a modern appeal; Rachel Bespaloff has written an essay which
> may in response to Weil's. Both done during WWII, I think.
>
> Tony
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:12:57 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Final lines -- an observation
> From: jamesrovira at gmail.com<mailto:jamesrovira at gmail.com>
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>
> On a note related to our very interesting discussion of the Iliad: I'll be
> teaching the Iliad for the first time this coming Fall in a Comparative
> Mythology course.  Any suggestions for teaching it?  Suggestions for
> individual or group activities, recommended approaches, companion texts,
> other works to pair with it, etc., would all be appreciated.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Jim R
>
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> --
> Hannibal Hamlin
> Associate Professor of English
> Editor, Reformation
> Organizer, The King James Bible and its Cultural Afterlife
> http://kingjamesbible.osu.edu/
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> 164 West 17th Ave., 421 Denney Hall
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>
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