[Milton-L] Milton & Lilith

Bob Blair bblair48 at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 20 08:48:27 EDT 2011


Macdonald's _Lilith_ is available as a Project Gutenberg text at http://www.archive.org/stream/lilitharomance01640gut/lilth10.txt

Bob
--- On Tue, 4/19/11, Salwa Khoddam <skhoddam at cox.net> wrote:

> From: Salwa Khoddam <skhoddam at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Milton & Lilith
> To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Date: Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 9:04 PM
> This Lilith figure is so
> intriguing.  In the passage from Lewis's LWW cited by
> Jameela (which slipped my mind, rather embarrassing since I
> just finished a book on The Chronicles of Narnia--coming out
> in June, 2011, published by Winged Lion Press), Lewis
> continues to say that Lilith was one of the Jinn (a spirit
> in Islamic mythology who appears in animal or human
> form)  and from the other side of her ancestry she
> comes from the giants.  Paul Ford in Companion to
> Narnia writes that Lilith is "A female demon of both
> Babylonian Mythology and the Hebrew tradition, who murders
> newborn babies, harms women in chldbirth, and haunts
> wildernesses on the lookout for children" (286). Sin in PL
> seems rather tame in comparison, but then Sin is an
> allegorical figure.
> About the influence of George MacDonald's Lilith on Lewis's
> White Witch,
> Glen GoodKnight suggests that there is an influence, but
> that Lewis in LWW emphasized her hatred of humanity and her
> child stealing rather than her attractiveness.  I
> haven't read MacDonald's Lilith yet.
> Best Wishes,
> Salwa
> 
> Salwa Khoddam, Ph.D.
> Professor of English, Emerita
> Oklahoma City University
> 2501 N. Blackwelder
> OKC, OK  73106
> Phone:  405-208-5127
> Email:  skhoddam at cox.net
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jameela Lares" <Jameela.Lares at usm.edu>
> To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:12 AM
> Subject: RE: [Milton-L] Milton & Lilith
> 
> 
> Lewis himself identifies a connection with Lilith,
> actually.  In "What Happened after Dinner" in _The
> Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_, Mr. Beaver says of the
> White Witch, "she comes of your father Adam's . . . first
> wife, her they called Lilith" (page 81 in my edition).
> 
> What I am not sure about is how much of Lewis's mention has
> to do with George MacDonald's book, Lilith (1895). Much, I
> imagine, as Lewis was influenced by MacDonald.
> 
> Jameela Lares
> Professor of English
> The University of Southern Mississippi
> 118 College Drive, #5037
> Hattiesburg, MS  39406-0001
> 601 266-4319 ofc
> 601 266-5757 fax
> ________________________________________
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
> [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu]
> On Behalf Of Salwa Khoddam [skhoddam at cox.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 9:15 AM
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Milton & Lilith
> 
> Thank you, Larisa.  This is one of the most helpful
> sources on Lilith.  Some critics see a relationship
> between her and The White Witch in The Lion, the Witch, and
> the Wardrobe.
> Best,
> Salwa
> 
> Salwa Khoddam, Ph.D.
> Professor of English, Emerita
> Oklahoma City University
> 2501 N. Blackwelder
> OKC, OK  73106
> Phone:  405-208-5127
> Email:  skhoddam at cox.net<mailto:skhoddam at cox.net>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Zámbóné Kocic Larisa<mailto:larisa at lit.u-szeged.hu>
> To: 'John Milton Discussion List'<mailto:milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:55 AM
> Subject: RE: [Milton-L] Milton & Lilith
> 
> Dear Ryan,
> 
> I have for some time entertained the notion myself, but
> after an in-depth research I discarded it as baseless 
> – the best one can come up with are conjectures. I doubt
> not, that Milton knew the story, but he obviously had no use
> for it in his epic.  I would say that Lilith plays
> greater role among his readers, especially those of the 18th
> and 19th century, who certainly wished to see Sin as
> prefiguring or embodying Lilith (Fuseli’s painting of the
> Lapland witches comes readily into one’s mind, and indeed,
> the Night-Hag part – „Lur’d with the smell of infant
> blood” – from Milton’s extended simile does resemble
> Lilith, however, it is worth noting that Milton is comparing
> not so much Sin with the Night-Hag, but rather the
> Hellhounds surround Sin with those following the Night-Hag).
> If you student wishes to pursue this matter, I would
> recommend Amy Scerba online article on Lilth, in which she
> does make a passing remark to Milton identifying his Sin
> („Snakie Sorceress [2.724]) to Lilith:
> http://feminism.eserver.org/theory/papers/lilith
> I hope this was of some help.
> Best,
> 
> Larisa Kocic-Zambo
> 
> 
> From: Ryan Paul [mailto:ryanspaul at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 8:51 PM
> To: John Milton Discussion List
> Subject: [Milton-L] Milton & Lilith
> 
> Dear E-Miltonists:
> 
> A student asked me about Lilith and whether Milton knew her
> story or was influenced by it. I assume that Milton was well
> aware of the story, but I have no idea if his works, PL or
> otherwise, make any references to her. A scan through the
> index of Shoulson's Milton and the Rabbis did not turn up
> any mention of her, and the only mention I could find in a
> (very cursory) web search of Milton scholarship turned up a
> brief aside in Denis Saurat's 1922 article "Milton and the
> Zohar," where he suggests that perhaps the character of Sin
> was based on the Lilith legend. All this suggests to me that
> Milton simply wasn't interested in her story, but I wanted
> to check with the list to see if any of you either knew of
> scholarship on the subject or had your own theories about
> her role in shaping Milton's theology or poetry.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
> 
> Best,
> Ryan Paul
> 
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