[Milton-L] Re prelaps seasons: when is a question a good one?

Salwa Khoddam skhoddam at cox.net
Sat Jan 9 12:01:33 EST 2010


Thank you, Michael and Dario,
Apparently, because of their native intelligence (which Satan still has some of), A &E can apprehend things intuitively.  This reminds me of what one of my international students said to me about the layout of his city.  They have no street names, no house numbers, no post office.  They don't receive letters either domestic or international.  So when I asked him how can people find him, he replied that the mosque is always at the center of the city, so if one asked for him, people would direct him/her to his house in relation to its distance or direction from the mosque.  I'm still amazed at this, but obviously in some societies, the geography of the city and its landmarks can serve as guides instead of street numbers! This is so in the ealiest society of mankind.
Cordially,
Salwa
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael Gillum 
  To: John Milton Discussion List 
  Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 9:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re prelaps seasons: when is a question a good one?


  Salwa,


  At 8.326, Adam quotes God's interdiction of the fruit. God does not show him the tree nor give detailed directions. It is the tree "Amid the Garden by the Tree of Life." In Book 4 Adam gives the same description to Eve, which Satan overhears.


  In the unfallen world, things look like what they are until Satan shows up and invents disguise. That's how Adam and Eve can name the animals and flowers correctly. That's how Satan can read the bodies of A&E as signs (4.289 etc.) with considerable if not perfect accuracy.


  The Tree of Life is "the middle Tree and highest" (4.195). Apparently its identity is self-evident. The other tree is "hard by." So, just go to the middle of the garden. You can't miss it.


  Michael


  On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Salwa Khoddam <skhoddam at cox.net> wrote:

    Talking about the fruit tree . . . How did Satan know which specific tree Adam meant when Adam was telling Eve about God's commandment in Bk. 4?  I think I'm missing something.  Would appreciate it if you would point out where and how Satan learned about what specific tree to target.
    Many thanks,
    Salwa
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Michael Gillum 
      To: John Milton Discussion List 
      Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 2:35 PM
      Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re prelaps seasons: when is a question a good one?


      Dario, This is not a "nod" by Milton. Satan is just playing dumb. He wants her to restate the rules and perhaps notice the arbitrariness. It's significant that she never mentions the reason for the prohibition, although Adam has explained it and she approved of it as "just and right" (4.443). 


      Michael


      On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Dario Rivarossa <dario.rivarossa at gmail.com> wrote:

        Once again, there can be in PL a reference to Dante "plus" a modern approach that conveys a more complex insight --- the outcome being sometimes a bit contradictory, because Milton wants to save too many goats and too many cabbages. 
        On the other hand, Dante's Eden, that is placed on top of the mount of Purgatory, looks even more contradictory because it enjoys a "never-ending Spring" though it belongs to our current post-lapsarian Earth. Just a sort of miracle can grant its unnatural condition, in fact.


        As for Milton, he often adds personal episodes to the previous tellings, but at the same time he tries to keep any recorded detail in his own text, and that's where the cocktail sometimes doesn't work. 
        E.g. in PL 9.656-657 the Satan-Serpent ask Eve, "Indeed? Hath God said that if the fruit / Of all these garden trees ye shall not eat?", as he does in the Bible, BUT Milton here forgets that just few lines before, v. 620, Eve - unlike in Genesis - had already told the Tempter, "in such abundance lies our choice".




        _______________________________________________
        Milton-L mailing list
        Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
        Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

        Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/





--------------------------------------------------------------------------


      _______________________________________________
      Milton-L mailing list
      Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
      Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

      Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/


    _______________________________________________
    Milton-L mailing list
    Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
    Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

    Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  Milton-L mailing list
  Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
  Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

  Milton-L web site: http://johnmilton.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.richmond.edu/pipermail/milton-l/attachments/20100109/d4065472/attachment.html


More information about the Milton-L mailing list