[Milton-L] the Immaculate Conception (response)

Nairba Sirrah nairbasirrah at msn.com
Sun Dec 19 01:37:25 EST 2010

Hello Dennis,
didn't mean to infuriate. But that unfortunately happens a lot on here.
In response, of course the Roman Catholic church is going to see it that way. But the main essence of the story is that Mary did not have a choice. God was the father. And she was the mother. She got preganant by divine insemination.
As hard as it may be to face or admit, the "immacualate conception" by ancient and modern definition IS rape. She had no choice. Not exactly immaculate. Had God asked her permission, then fine. But as is, it was rape.
Not to mention she was already married to another man. Adultery.
And as for it not having anything to do with Milton, in Milton Jesus is "begotten" in Heaven. And considering he soon after fought in a war, was also born an adult.
What's so wrong about considering the physical implications of these spiritual narratives? In Milton, we are to suppose that "the Son" is zapped into her uterus and reborn...but as you so graciosly pointed out, in Luke it clearly says she will conceive, meaning a sexual bonding between father and mother.
Again, sorry for the offence and infuriation, but a fact is a fact.

> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 21:42:13 -0800
> From: danielso at interchange.ubc.ca
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] the Immaculate Conception
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
> OK, so this hasn't much to do with Milton. And perhaps I shouldn't rise 
> to the bait. But Mr. Sirrah's assumptions are apparently false 
> (infuriating, too, but let that pass) on two counts:
> 1. The Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception states that 
> *Mary* was conceived without sin; it wasn't officially formulated as 
> dogma until the 19th century.
> 2. If Sirrah means to say that *Mary* was impregnated against her will, 
> that statement is contrary to the plain meaning of the biblical account 
> of Luke 2:26-38 (See below, noting the future tense in the angel's "you 
> will conceive," plus Mary's compliant response).
> I'm done, except to thank Louis Schwartz for his eminently sensible 
> comments yesterday, and to wish my fellow Miltonists all the blessings 
> of the season, whatever feasts or festivals they observe.
> Dennis Danielson
> _______________________
> Luke 2:26-38
> In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel 
> to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a 
> man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. The 
> angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The 
> Lord is with you.”
> Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of 
> greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, 
> Mary; you have found favor with God. You will conceive and give birth to 
> a son, and you are to call him Jesus. He will be great and will be 
> called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne 
> of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; 
> his kingdom will never end.”
> “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
> The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of 
> the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be 
> called[b] the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have 
> a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is 
> in her sixth month. For no word from God will ever fail.”
> “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be 
> fulfilled.”
> On 10-12-18 9:07 PM, Nairba Sirrah wrote:
> > in the vein of considering the classic epic hero and the classic epic
> > villain, let us remember that "the immaculate conception" was (if it
> > actually happened) categorically...rape. Anytime you impregnate a woman
> > against her will, it is rape.
> >
> > So if Satan is the hero, guess who's the villain.
> -- 
> Dennis Danielson
> Professor of English
> University of British Columbia
> #397 - 1873 East Mall
> Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Z1
> telephone: 604-822-4092
> Author: The First Copernican
> Editor: Paradise Lost, Parallel Prose Edition
> WEB: http://faculty.arts.ubc.ca/ddaniels/
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