[Milton-L] something desired

Jessica Watson jessicaalexiswatson at gmail.com
Fri Dec 17 18:40:15 EST 2010


Sometimes I wish the Milton-L was like facebook and I could  "like"
certain posts.  I'm not sure who runs this list, but it might be
something to consider. It would also make following posts a bit easier
for those who come into discussions towards the end.


On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Russell Hillier
<russellhillier at hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...and remember what peace there may be in silence.
>
> ________________________________
> From: nairbasirrah at msn.com
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
> Subject: RE: [Milton-L] sorry everyone
> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 23:05:29 +0000
>
> I can't possibly read another villified snide remark directed at me. I'm not
> reading any of the responses the past two hours. I've gained nothing from
> any of this. It was nice meeting Mr. Lindall. Other than that, my detractors
> are too interested in distorting the truth.
>
> Again, I didn't mean any offence. And I'm sad I was forced to defend myself
> by pointing out the immaturity of others.
>
> Please don't bother attacking me or slandering me. I won't be reading.
>
> ________________________________
> From: nairbasirrah at msn.com
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
> Subject: RE: [Milton-L] Recent discussions - for my part
> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:42:02 +0000
>
> All along I attempted a civilized exchange. I made good points, all of which
> I can back up with citing specific sections of both the Bible and the poem.
> Other than that I defended myself when people got unnecessarily personal and
> negative. I attempted to agree with the cease fire, only to receive more
> attacks distorting the things I said.
>
> I'm sorry if offended anyone. I truly tried to stay on topic. Please don't
> post any more assessments of my poersonal character or qualifications
> regarding the poetry of John Milton. I know what I'm talking about.
>
> And yes, Mr. Lindall, I don't consider Paradise Lost a poem celebrating
> religious doctrine. If anything, in his old age Milton was hiding heretical
> criticsm the only way you legally could at the time. To a truly devout
> Christian it is an absurd representation of a story that many people hold as
> the most sacred aspect of their lives.
>
> This all started with addressing the concept of "tasteless"...I was merely
> trying to point out how a devout Christian could easily consider Paradise
> Lost "tasteless" in and of itself. Mr. Lindall do you check your gmail??
>
> Thank you for being on my side.
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:02:19 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Recent discussions
> From: tlindall at gmail.com
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
>
> This is of intelligence and good temper and I agree entirely. We can all
> learn from this. I will accommodate the suggestions of Dr. Schwartz while
> extending my apologies to any I may have offended with my greeting card. I
> have the reputation of being a provocateur in the wider world and I think
> that I should not extend it to this professional list of scholars and Milton
> lovers whom I do indeed respect. Sincerely, Terrance Lindall
>
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Schwartz, Louis <lschwart at richmond.edu>
> wrote:
>
> A few brief remarks regarding clarity and courtesy:
>
> 1) I think that some of the scholars and teachers among us ought to have a
> little more patience and generosity with those whose experience of Milton’s
> work comes from enthusiasms and activities outside the academy.
>
> 2) I think that those who come to a list like this from outside the academy
> should be aware of and sensitive to the fact that many of the list’s members
> have dedicated long professional careers to the study of Milton’s life and
> works, the culture and politics of seventeenth century England, and to the
> cultural history of Western Europe.  Some have expertise that ranges more
> widely than that.  Many of these members have published carefully researched
> and closely argued books on these subjects, explaining their importance to a
> full understanding of Milton’s work.  Their conclusions can be argued with
> by anyone who takes the time to consider them with some care.  It would be
> good to address these members, in any case, with this in mind.
>
> 3) I have no problem with people sending Christmas greetings via the list,
> but it would be good if those greetings recognized that there are many list
> members who are not Christians.   Courtesy, I believe, simply requires that
> such greetings should be addressed only to those who are indeed celebrating
> the holiday in question—although they can of course be posted publically.
>  That should be easy enough to do.  Beyond this matter of address, the
> greeter should be free to say whatever he or she wishes to his or her fellow
> Christians—and they can respond however they wish.  For my part, although I
> am not myself a Christian, I wish them all a merry Christmas.  After all,
> many are deeply cherished—and in some cases deeply loved—friends and
> colleagues.  I also can’t help but think of those who are no longer with us
> as I write.
>
> 4) I think questions about #3 above should be carefully separated from other
> questions, like for example, those concerning the artistic value of a
> particular work of visual art that might accompany a Christmas greeting.
>  Again, for my part, I think Terrance’s illustrations of Paradise Lost are
> wonderfully rich, expressive, and responsive works of art, and I’m always
> happy to see them posted.  People can of course disagree about that, but
> that is a separate issue.  I could be mistaken, but I believe that the
> initial, negative reactions to Terrance’s post had to do with the
> assumptions his greeting seemed to be making about the beliefs of those he
> was addressing and not with the content of his painting.
>
> 5) I think that the discussion about “culturomics” and etc. is entirely
> relevant and very interesting.  So now I’m going to go and give it some (I
> hope) careful thought.
>
> All the best to everyone,
>
> Louis
>
> ======================
> Louis Schwartz
> Associate Professor of English
> University of Richmond
> Richmond, VA  23173
> (804) 289-8315
> lschwart at richmond.edu
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