[Milton-L] De Doctrina Christiana

FLANNAGAN, ROY ROY at uscb.edu
Fri Jan 2 16:55:03 EST 2009


 
This will have to be thoughtful, but it has always seemed to me that the De Doctrina gives Paradise Lost a kind of structure, sort of the same way that Johnson's Dictionary helped shape his prose style.  I have a hunch that Milton never did anything gratuitously: if he did a Greek lexicon, it was to help with etymology as much as it might have brought in some extra change through publication.  The same might be true of a rhetoric, which would give him an even further grasp of his own methods of persuasion. Even a history of Britain would kill two or three birds with one stone, if he was thinking of an Arthurian epic.  The De Doctrina organized the Bible for him, and it made sense of life and morality.  It also helped perpetuate some of his quirky ideas, such as divorce based on incompatibility or on religious disagreement, or polygamy, if divorce didn't work.
 
What I meant by working with the comparisons or likenesses between tract and epic was that it has always seemed more useful to find points of agreement between what happens in the epic and what is described in the treatise, as with the interaction between angels and humankind before and after the Fall.  I may catch hell for this, but I think most of the arguments that PL is a poem and DDC a tract and therefore the two will never completely mesh seem spurious to me.  Someone on the list will point out a particular point in the epic where Milton the poet seems to disagree with Milton the theologian, and I will listen, but I may not be convinced.
 
Roy F

________________________________

From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu on behalf of John Hale
Sent: Fri 1/2/2009 4:20 PM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] De Doctrina Christiana


Interesting strand. 
Best wishes, Roy, and tell us please why you think that comparing "works" better than contrasting. 
What is meant by "working" in this connection?
John 


On 3/01/2009, at 6:53 AM, FLANNAGAN, ROY wrote:


	 
	The starting place, as ever, would be in Maurice Kelley's This Great Argument, which matches the epic against the treatise point by theological point.  Sometimes Kelley makes the treatise into a kind of Procrustean bed, but what he wrote still seems well-organized and concise.  That book made Kelley's academic reputation, and it might have assured him a home at Princeton.
	 
	Michael Bauman might speak best for the differences between epic and treatise, but I think comparing the two works with each other works better than contrasting them with each other.
	 
	Roy Flannagan 
	
________________________________

	From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu on behalf of Michael Gillum
	Sent: Fri 1/2/2009 11:41 AM
	To: milton-l
	Subject: Re: [Milton-L] De Doctrina Christiana
	
	
	Extending Hannibal Hamlin's question, could I ask people to say what they think are  important differences between ideas stated in DDC and ideas stated or clearly implied in PL (as you interpret it)?
	
	Michael
	
	
	
	
	On 1/2/09 11:18 AM, "Hannibal Hamlin" <hamlin.hannibal at gmail.com> wrote:
	
	

		A further question that is more hermeneutic than bibliographic -- to what extent can Paradise Lost (say) be legitimately interpreted in light of De Doctrina?  This seems to have become common practice, for the obvious reason that the theological positions stated in De Doctrina are considerably easier to determine than those in PL.  But De Doctrina isn't really a handbook to the theology of PL, is it?  If the same man wrote both works, that's certainly interesting, but can we assume that both works express the same ideas, or that their author was of the same mind when he wrote both works?  We might even ask about the relationship about theological ideas to the (written) linguistic expression of them: i.e., is it possible that language can generate ideas as much as the reverse, and even that different kinds of writing (dramatic fictional English verse, say, as opposed to expository Latin prose) might tend to generate different ideas?
		 
		Hannibal
		
		 
		On 1/2/09, Thomas Corns <els009 at bangor.ac.uk> wrote: 
		

			
			May I suggest reading at least the last chapter of Gordon Campbell, Thomas
			N. Corns, John K. Hale, and Fiona Tweedie, JOHN MILTON AND THE MANUSCRIPT OF
			DE DOCTRINA CHRISTIANA (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2006)?
			
			If time is more pressing, then go with Michael Bauman: yes.
			
			DE DOCTRINA CHRISTIANA is being edited for the new Oxford Complete Works of
			John Milton; John Hale is the volume editor for that volume.
			
			Best
			Tom Corns
			
			
			
			
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