[Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise Lost

jonnyangel junkopardner at comcast.net
Sat Apr 18 04:49:55 EDT 2009




On 4/18/09 4:11 AM, "Michael Bryson" <michael.bryson at csun.edu> wrote:

> Jonny,
> 
> In terms of being patronizing and condescending, I really don't think you have
> anything to apologize for. You have been a champion along both lines for some
> time now on this list. And your rhetorical habit of invoking violence, and
> vague threats thereof...do you extend this habit to your bricks-and-mortar,
> offline life? Do you treat your fellow students, your professors, as you often
> treat the members of this list? I hope not, for their sakes, if not for yours.
> 
> Honestly, when does enough become enough? When will you grow weary of playing
> the bully here? You claim that professors should respect students (and
> performers should respect their audiences), but you give no respect--you
> merely expect it. You go to great lengths to present yourself here as a
> rhetorically violent snowflake who thinks his opinions are to be given weight
> because they are his, and because they are expressed by someone who is not shy
> about telling the rest of us how large and strong he is, and how willing he is
> to physically (and/or otherwise) assault any and all who dare disagree with
> him, or find his rhetorical stance incredibly boorish.
> 
> You like to stir things up. That's often a good thing. But, to be perfectly
> frank, you have stirred things up to the point that this list is suffering for
> it. Who benefits? What end is served? What do you get out of this, other than
> the pleasure of telling us all off now and then, since we "in the sublime
> clique of academia"  believe, apparently, that undergraduates "should just
> kiss the summa cum laude ring on the royal fingers with a reverend knee dug in
> the ground"? Why would you want to talk to us, any of us, if that is how you
> see us?
> 
> Michael Bryson
> 
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:28:06 -0400
>> From: jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise Lost
>> To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Salwa, 
>> 
>> ³Sublime², as you say, could not exist without the inane, could it? So in
>> that sense, the ³inane² serves a very important function. For instance, it
>> provides academics the opportunity to be patronizing and condescending to
>> those they believe to be intellectually anemic and inferior to them. So,
>> heck, following that line of ³inane² rational, you should probably, uh, I
>> don¹t know...send me a Thank You card? No? Well, ok...
>> 
>> Look, I¹m just a student, alright? I don¹t have a BA, MFA or PhD after my
>> name (and even if I did I would still get better dental care in jail). The
>> question of whether or not PL is the greatest work ever written in the
>> English language was not my question; I just simply responded to it. When
>> Bill got drug out of the Œol closet, I said what I had to say about his
>> ³poetry² and body of work compared to Milton. I was personally received with
>> some disrespect, and what did I do? Well, I gave some back. Some have said
>> that I live in the Old Testament, but I really don¹t. In my world, if you
>> take one of my eyes, I¹ll take ³both² of yours, and then I¹ll tell you (as
>> you¹re stumbling around in darkness) that in the land of the blind, the one
>> eyed man is king. I know it¹s unfair, but this is also why you shouldn¹t flip
>> strangers off ­ because you never know...
>> And for the life of me I can¹t understand why someone who is disrespectful to
>> someone should expect anything else in return. Madonna sang, ³We are
>> living/in a Material World², and John Milton sang that we are living in a
>> Post Lapsarian world (same song, really). I didn¹t break the world, I just
>> shuck all the blame onto my first Grandparent's while wading though the mess
>> that they left me in their will.
>> And what would you do if someone suggested (on a Milton list, no less) that
>> you should be removed? Oh, that¹s right, I almost forgot ­ you will never
>> face something so egregious because you¹re in the sublime clique of academia,
>> and students like myself should just kiss the summa cum laude ring on the
>> royal fingers with a reverend knee dug in the ground.
>> I¹m not directing this at you personally, but respect is a two way street.
>> And I don¹t care if you¹re a Professor or the second coming of Otis Redding,
>> the former should still respect their students and the latter should still
>> respect their audience ­ because, without them, the Crystal Ball says ³Clean
>> up on Aisle 9². 
>> 
>> In closing, I read ³The Enclosed Garden in C.S. Lewis¹ The Chronicles of
>> Narnia², and thought overall it was well done. See? You Love C.S. Lewis, and
>> I¹ve loved and studied him since I was a child in theology school. And with
>> all due respect to this ³inane² thread and your two cents on it, my feeling
>> is that your silent treatment is probably best.
>> 
>> Shalom, 
>> 
>> Jonny 
>> 
>> 
>> I am like God, and God like me.
>> I am as large as God, he is as small as I:
>> He cannot above me, nor I beneath him be.
>> 
>> - Silesius, "The Cherubic Wanderer."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/18/09 12:48 AM, "Salwa Khoddam" <skhoddam at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Milton Scholars,
>>> I agree with S.Tertius and others who voiced their opinions about this
>>> recent thread of "inane" comments.  Why is it that we are keeping this
>>> "inane" discussion thread going?  Could we not get to the "sublime" without
>>> going through the "inane"? I don't know what to say against this avalanche
>>> of disrespectful and warped opinions. I look to this list as a scholarly
>>> source to advance my knowledge of Milton.  I have learned  much from you and
>>> hope to continue to do so.  Yes, Milton would burn "inane" books, although
>>> he would allow them to be published.  So must we use the "delete" key for
>>> "inane" statements.  Without a moderator, the silent treatment is best.
>>>  
>>> Salwa Khoddam
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>  
>>>> From:  Scriblerus Tertius <mailto:scriblerustertius at yahoo.com>
>>>>  
>>>> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
>>>>  
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:47 PM
>>>>  
>>>> Subject: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise  Lost
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Mr. Angel, 
>>>>  
>>>> I'm glad to know that you can make words using the most commonly occuring
>>>> letters in the English language, but I do not understand what you are
>>>> blathering about. Maybe your synapses are not firing because I never
>>>> asserted to know Milton better than you.  Milton wasn't "all about
>>>> censorship." He only wanted things with no orientation to his particular
>>>> truth  censored. A close reading of _Areopagitica_ will bear that out.
>>>> Methinks I hit  a nerve.
>>>>  
>>>> Best,
>>>>  
>>>> S. Tertius
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:08:56 -0400
>>>> 
>>>> From: jonnyangel  <junkopardner at comcast.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise  Lost
>>>> To: John Milton Discussion List  <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>>>> Message-ID:  <C60D8728.165F%junkopardner at comcast.net>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>> 
>>>> You know, if ³names² counted in Scrabble, and I  had all the letters of
>>>> your
>>>> name, I think I could win every  time.
>>>> 
>>>> And you obviously know and understand Milton far greater that I  ever
>>>> could,
>>>> because you can see that he was all about censorship, whereas  I¹ve been
>>>> blinded to that.
>>>> 
>>>> So, thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> [chewing my  self-censoring tongue bloody]
>>>> 
>>>> JA 
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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