[Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise Lost

Michael Bryson michael.bryson at csun.edu
Sat Apr 18 04:11:46 EDT 2009


Jonny,

In terms of being patronizing and condescending, I
really don't think you have anything to apologize
for. You have been a champion along both lines for
some time now on this list. And your rhetorical
habit of invoking violence, and vague threats
thereof...do you extend this habit to your
bricks-and-mortar, offline life? Do you treat your
fellow students, your professors, as you often treat
the members of this list? I hope not, for their
sakes, if not for yours.

Honestly, when does enough become enough? When will
you grow weary of playing the bully here? You claim
that professors should respect students (and
performers should respect their audiences), but you
give no respect--you merely expect it. You go to
great lengths to present yourself here as a
rhetorically violent snowflake who thinks his
opinions are to be given weight because they are
his, and because they are expressed by someone who
is not shy about telling the rest of us how large
and strong he is, and how willing he is to
physically (and/or otherwise) assault any and all
who dare disagree with him, or find his rhetorical
stance incredibly boorish.

You like to stir things up. That's often a good
thing. But, to be perfectly frank, you have stirred
things up to the point that this list is suffering
for it. Who benefits? What end is served? What do
you get out of this, other than the pleasure of
telling us all off now and then, since we "in the
sublime clique of academia"  believe, apparently,
that undergraduates "should just kiss the summa cum
laude ring on the royal fingers with a reverend knee
dug in the ground"? Why would you want to talk to
us, any of us, if that is how you see us?

Michael Bryson

---- Original message ----

  Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:28:06 -0400
  From: jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>
  Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise Lost
  To: John Milton Discussion List
  <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>

  Salwa,

  “Sublime”, as you say, could not exist without
  the inane, could it? So in that sense, the
  “inane” serves a very important function. For
  instance, it provides academics the opportunity to
  be patronizing and condescending to those they
  believe to be intellectually anemic and inferior
  to them. So, heck, following that line of
  “inane” rational, you should probably, uh, I
  don’t know...send me a Thank You card? No? Well,
  ok...

  Look, I’m just a student, alright? I don’t
  have a BA, MFA or PhD after my name (and even if I
  did I would still get better dental care in jail).
  The question of whether or not PL is the greatest
  work ever written in the English language was not
  my question; I just simply responded to it. When
  Bill got drug out of the ‘ol closet, I said what
  I had to say about his “poetry” and body of
  work compared to Milton. I was personally received
  with some disrespect, and what did I do? Well, I
  gave some back. Some have said that I live in the
  Old Testament, but I really don’t. In my world,
  if you take one of my eyes, I’ll take “both”
  of yours, and then I’ll tell you (as you’re
  stumbling around in darkness) that in the land of
  the blind, the one eyed man is king. I know it’s
  unfair, but this is also why you shouldn’t flip
  strangers off – because you never know...
  And for the life of me I can’t understand why
  someone who is disrespectful to someone should
  expect anything else in return. Madonna sang,
  “We are living/in a Material World”, and John
  Milton sang that we are living in a Post Lapsarian
  world (same song, really). I didn’t break the
  world, I just shuck all the blame onto my first
  Grandparent's while wading though the mess that
  they left me in their will.
  And what would you do if someone suggested (on a
  Milton list, no less) that you should be removed?
  Oh, that’s right, I almost forgot – you will
  never face something so egregious because you’re
  in the sublime clique of academia, and students
  like myself should just kiss the summa cum laude
  ring on the royal fingers with a reverend knee dug
  in the ground.
  I’m not directing this at you personally, but
  respect is a two way street. And I don’t care if
  you’re a Professor or the second coming of Otis
  Redding, the former should still respect their
  students and the latter should still respect their
  audience – because, without them, the Crystal
  Ball says “Clean up on Aisle 9”.

  In closing, I read “The Enclosed Garden in C.S.
  Lewis’ The Chronicles of Narnia”, and thought
  overall it was well done. See? You Love C.S.
  Lewis, and I’ve loved and studied him since I
  was a child in theology school. And with all due
  respect to this “inane” thread and your two
  cents on it, my feeling is that your silent
  treatment is probably best.

  Shalom,

  Jonny

  I am like God, and God like me.
  I am as large as God, he is as small as I:
  He cannot above me, nor I beneath him be.

  - Silesius, "The Cherubic Wanderer."

  On 4/18/09 12:48 AM, "Salwa Khoddam"
  <skhoddam at cox.net> wrote:

    Dear Milton Scholars,
    I agree with S.Tertius and others who voiced
    their opinions about this recent thread of
    "inane" comments.  Why is it that we are keeping
    this "inane" discussion thread going?  Could we
    not get to the "sublime" without going through
    the "inane"? I don't know what to say against
    this avalanche of disrespectful and warped
    opinions. I look to this list as a scholarly
    source to advance my knowledge of Milton.  I
    have learned  much from you and hope to continue
    to do so.  Yes, Milton would burn "inane" books,
    although he would allow them to be published.
     So must we use the "delete" key for "inane"
    statements.  Without a moderator, the silent
    treatment is best.
    Salwa Khoddam
     
     
     
    ----- Original Message -----

      From:  Scriblerus Tertius
      <mailto:scriblerustertius at yahoo.com>  
       
      To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu  
       
      Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:47 PM
       
      Subject: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise  Lost
       

       
      Mr. Angel,
       
      I'm glad to know that you can make words using
      the most commonly occuring  letters in the
      English language, but I do not understand what
      you are  blathering about. Maybe your synapses
      are not firing because I never  asserted to
      know Milton better than you.  Milton wasn't
      "all about  censorship." He only wanted things
      with no orientation to his particular truth
       censored. A close reading of _Areopagitica_
      will bear that out. Methinks I hit  a nerve.
       
      Best,
       
      S. Tertius
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Message: 1
      Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:08:56 -0400

      From: jonnyangel  <junkopardner at comcast.net>
      Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise  Lost
      To: John Milton Discussion List
       <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
      Message-ID:
       <C60D8728.165F%junkopardner at comcast.net>
      Content-Type: text/plain;
       charset="iso-8859-1"

      You know, if “names” counted in Scrabble,
      and I  had all the letters of your
      name, I think I could win every  time.

      And you obviously know and understand Milton
      far greater that I  ever could,
      because you can see that he was all about
      censorship, whereas  I’ve been
      blinded to that.

      So, thanks.

      [chewing my  self-censoring tongue bloody]

      JA
       

       

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