[Milton-L] Is Paradise Lost?

Yuko Nii wahcenter at earthlink.net
Tue Apr 14 10:38:35 EDT 2009


Ah, but Paradise is NOT Lost. This is the "best of all possible  
worlds," and we have Milton, Shakespeare, Keats, Pope, and a thousand  
others, plus the English language! Bless that little island nation.
On Apr 14, 2009, at 8:05 AM, jonnyangel wrote:

> Thank you Marlene.
>
> But Shakespeare *wasn’t* a poet. Not that it’s a “bad” thing, but he  
> was a playwright.
>
> Milton...now that’s a poet. And I will deny Shakespeare as a poet  
> till the day I die, unless a real poet shows me something I missed.
>
> “I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet, a pawn and a king
> I've been up and down and over and out and I know one thing
> Each time I find myself layin' flat on my face
> I just pick myself up and get back in the race.”
>
> (Thank you Frank.)
>
> And yes, I say Shalom and mean it, but Shakespeare isn’t going to  
> dig himself out of his grave and write poetry either way.
>
> And BTW, Keats, Chaucer and Pope couldn’t catch Milton if you dug  
> them all up now and gave them a 200 year head start. You see, time  
> doesn’t exist.
>
> And it sure as hell ain’t ever gonna change the facts.
>
> Peace, Love, and Billy Jack,
>
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/14/09 6:40 AM, "Marlene Edelstein" <malkaruth2000 at yahoo.co.uk>  
> wrote:
>
>> Shalom? Shalom? If it's peace and harmony you're after don't go  
>> about calling Shakespeare a one-trick pony and denying that he's a  
>> poet. Why the need to establish a hierarchy of the greatest? My  
>> love of poetry and language was nurtured by by both Shakespeare and  
>> Milton (and Keats, Chaucer and Pope, by the way); returning to  
>> either is a rebirth.
>>
>>               Marlene R. Edelstein
>>
>>
>>
>> believe everything, believe nothing
>>
>> --- On Tue, 14/4/09, jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Is Paradise Lost
>>> To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>>> Date: Tuesday, 14 April, 2009, 10:55 AM
>>>
>>> Re: [Milton-L] Is Paradise Lost Yes, Yes, and Yes. PL is the  
>>> greatest work of literature in the “English” Language; how could  
>>> it not be? And you really can’t compare Shakespeare to Milton (or  
>>> vice versa), because Bill was a playwright and John was (first and  
>>> foremost) a poet. But you you can compare them with regard to the  
>>> fact that both were writer’s, and both wrote in the English  
>>> language. Shakespeare was a phenomenal verbal linguist, and you  
>>> can’t deny that. But Milton was a poet (which is something  
>>> Shakespeare simply wasn’t), AND Milton could also handle an epic  
>>> narrative, multiple characters, temporal space, and the single  
>>> largest topic that exists: Man/Woman, Heaven/Hell, God/Satan, and  
>>> all of the binaries of life’s Black/White morality forming grey  
>>> areas that are still being sought, fought, and argued over in the  
>>> 21st century.
>>>
>>> Look, when it comes to the heavyweights, whether it’s Milton/ 
>>> Shakespeare or Frazier/Ali, it’s all subjective. Is Godzilla  
>>> “greater” than King Kong? Is an electrolyte imbalance “greater”  
>>> than cancer? They can (and often will) take you to the same place  
>>> at the end of the day.
>>>
>>> But if I could be fortunate enough to have an escort to that  
>>> place, I hope Milton is my escort.
>>>
>>> Shakespeare, for all of his brilliance, was a one trick pony.  
>>> Milton was a jack of many trades, and the master of most of them.
>>>
>>> Even though you can argue someone till you’re blue in the face  
>>> that PL is the greatest work of English Literature ever written,  
>>> you will still get arguments to the contrary – but there are other  
>>> factors/variables in the equation to be considered.
>>>
>>> Shakespeare carved out his slice of the pie, and Milton served up  
>>> the rest.
>>>
>>> Shalom,
>>>
>>> Jonathan B. Colburn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/14/09 12:22 AM, "Alan Rudrum" <alanrudrum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> the greatest single work of literature in the English language,  
>>>> as was stated on this list recently?
>>>>
>>>> Certainly it might be argued that it is; but when I raised the  
>>>> question with the scholar nearest to hand, we said simultaneously  
>>>> "What about King Lear?"
>>>>
>>>> And then there is Wordsworth's Prelude, which begins with a  
>>>> meaningful echo of Samson Agonistes, - not every Milton scholar  
>>>> of my acquaintance managed to see this for himself,- and speaks  
>>>> at least as well as Paradise Lost to the concerns of many people  
>>>> one would hesitate to condemn as stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Alan Rudrum
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>
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>>
>>
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