[Milton-L] Is Paradise Lost

jonnyangel junkopardner at comcast.net
Tue Apr 14 08:05:37 EDT 2009


Thank you Marlene. 

But Shakespeare *wasn¹t* a poet. Not that it¹s a ³bad² thing, but he was a
playwright. 

Milton...now that¹s a poet. And I will deny Shakespeare as a poet till the
day I die, unless a real poet shows me something I missed.

³I've been a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet, a pawn and a king
I've been up and down and over and out and I know one thing
Each time I find myself layin' flat on my face
I just pick myself up and get back in the race.²

(Thank you Frank.)

And yes, I say Shalom and mean it, but Shakespeare isn¹t going to dig
himself out of his grave and write poetry either way.

And BTW, Keats, Chaucer and Pope couldn¹t catch Milton if you dug them all
up now and gave them a 200 year head start. You see, time doesn¹t exist.

And it sure as hell ain¹t ever gonna change the facts.

Peace, Love, and Billy Jack,


J






On 4/14/09 6:40 AM, "Marlene Edelstein" <malkaruth2000 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Shalom? Shalom? If it's peace and harmony you're after don't go about calling
> Shakespeare a one-trick pony and denying that he's a poet. Why the need to
> establish a hierarchy of the greatest? My love of poetry and language was
> nurtured by by both Shakespeare and Milton (and Keats, Chaucer and Pope, by
> the way); returning to either is a rebirth.
> 
>               Marlene R. Edelstein
> 
>                  
> 
> believe everything, believe nothing
> 
> --- On Tue, 14/4/09, jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> From: jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Is Paradise Lost
>> To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>> Date: Tuesday, 14 April, 2009, 10:55 AM
>> 
>> Re: [Milton-L] Is Paradise Lost Yes, Yes, and Yes. PL is the greatest work of
>> literature in the ³English² Language; how could it not be? And you really
>> can¹t compare Shakespeare to Milton (or vice versa), because Bill was a
>> playwright and John was (first and foremost) a poet. But you you can compare
>> them with regard to the fact that both were writer¹s, and both wrote in the
>> English language. Shakespeare was a phenomenal verbal linguist, and you can¹t
>> deny that. But Milton was a poet (which is something Shakespeare simply
>> wasn¹t), AND Milton could also handle an epic narrative, multiple characters,
>> temporal space, and the single largest topic that exists: Man/Woman,
>> Heaven/Hell, God/Satan, and all of the binaries of life¹s Black/White
>> morality forming grey areas that are still being sought, fought, and argued
>> over in the 21st century.
>> 
>> Look, when it comes to the heavyweights, whether it¹s Milton/Shakespeare or
>> Frazier/Ali, it¹s all subjective. Is Godzilla ³greater² than King Kong? Is an
>> electrolyte imbalance ³greater² than cancer? They can (and often will) take
>> you to the same place at the end of the day.
>> 
>> But if I could be fortunate enough to have an escort to that place, I hope
>> Milton is my escort.
>> 
>> Shakespeare, for all of his brilliance, was a one trick pony. Milton was a
>> jack of many trades, and the master of most of them.
>> 
>> Even though you can argue someone till you¹re blue in the face that PL is the
>> greatest work of English Literature ever written, you will still get
>> arguments to the contrary ­ but there are other factors/variables in the
>> equation to be considered.
>> 
>> Shakespeare carved out his slice of the pie, and Milton served up the rest.
>> 
>> Shalom, 
>> 
>> Jonathan B. Colburn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/14/09 12:22 AM, "Alan Rudrum" <alanrudrum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> the greatest single work of literature in the English language, as was
>>> stated on this list recently?
>>> 
>>> Certainly it might be argued that it is; but when I raised the question with
>>> the scholar nearest to hand, we said simultaneously "What about King Lear?"
>>> 
>>> And then there is Wordsworth's Prelude, which begins with a meaningful echo
>>> of Samson Agonistes, - not every Milton scholar of my acquaintance managed
>>> to see this for himself,- and speaks at least as well as Paradise Lost to
>>> the concerns of many people one would hesitate to condemn as stupid.
>>> 
>>> Alan Rudrum
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>  
>> 
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> 
> 
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