[Milton-L] Abdiel

Alice Crawford Berghof aberghof at uci.edu
Tue Jun 24 19:56:31 EDT 2008


I am remembering that Broadbent in Some Greater Subject (page 80?) said 
that only the fallen speak in soliloquy.  Might there be an important 
distinction between speaking alone in soliloquy, speaking in dialogue 
in the form of an ode, and, finally, internal monologue?  All three are 
departures from "discourse meet" (as opposed to "discourse more sweet") 
but the latter two can be prelapsarian or angelic.  In this sense, one 
must distinguish among the following:
1. Satan's frequent soliloquies early in PL
2. Eve's prelapsarian ode of IX ("Great are thy virtues, doubtless, 
best of fruits")
3. Adam's internal monologue ("O fairest of creation" - formulaic and 
in this sense distinct from what ensues from the line "Bold deed thou 
hast presumed, advent'rous Eve").
Rather than establishing a sliding scale for fallen discourse, we could 
establish one for prelapsarian or angelic asides and internal 
monologues.
Alice Berghof


On Jun 24, 2008, at 1:40 PM, Michael Gillum wrote:

> I guess Eve and Adam are "falling" rather than fallen or unfallen at 
> the
> time of their interior monologues-- as James Watt says, the categories 
> have
> a blurred zone between them. It's interesting that Adam's interior 
> monologue
> registering his decision is direct and certain like Abdiel's-- then his
> following speech to Eve is more convoluted, like her interior 
> monologue.
>
> Michael
>
>
> On 6/24/08 4:03 PM, "Judith Herz" <jherz at alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
>> Eve, then Adam, as each begins the process of talking themselves into
>> falling, hence the fractured self.  One can certainly claim, as I am 
>> in the
>> process of doing in a related argument, that fracture is the name 
>> (or, at
>> least, one of the names) of the PL game.
>> Judith Herz
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Gillum" <mgillum at unca.edu>
>> To: "milton-l" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 3:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Abdiel
>>
>>
>>> Incidentally, I thought Coiro's review was well done except that I 
>>> was
>>> puzzled by this section. I wonder if there are other interior 
>>> monologues
>>> by
>>> unfallen characters in the poem besides Abdiel's at 6.114.
>>>
>>> About Abdiel following Satan initially: Satan instructed Beelzebub to
>>> "Tell
>>> them that by command I am to haste. . . homeward. . . there to 
>>> prepare fit
>>> entertainment. . ." (5.685-90).  So Satan's followers thought they 
>>> were
>>> following God's orders. It's true that Beelzebub cast "ambiguous 
>>> words and
>>> jealousies" (5.703) among his orders to the sub-commanders, but no 
>>> telling
>>> whether these reached Abdiel.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On 6/24/08 2:12 PM, "Watt, James" <jwatt at butler.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Michael:
>>>>
>>>> I am always amused by Miltonists who are determined to out angel his
>>>> angels.
>>>> Here I am especially pleased to learn that Ms. Coiro believes that
>>>> subjectivity is a mark of the Fall (especially interesting in light 
>>>> of
>>>> the
>>>> high degree of subjective and interior reflection manifested by the
>>>> Elohim).
>>>> I wonder if gender is another mark of fallen subjectivity?  Or 
>>>> hell, what
>>>> about simple sex?
>>>>
>>>> Jim Watt
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
>>>> [milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gillum
>>>> [mgillum at unca.edu]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 11:31 AM
>>>> To: milton-l
>>>> Subject: [Milton-L] Abdiel
>>>>
>>>> Not much discussion of Milton’s poetry here lately. What are 
>>>> people’s
>>>> reactions to these points?
>>>>
>>>> “Abdiel is a decidedly mixed character >> capable of an interior
>>>> monologue, a mark of fallen subjectivity; and he is
>>>> more zealous than brilliant in his argument with his fallen 
>>>> general. If
>>>> there
>>>> is Miltonic representation here it is fractured and self-critical.”
>>>>
>>>> --Ann Baynes Coiro, review of Stephen Fallon’s new book in latest 
>>>> MQ.
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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