[Milton-L] Apples -apple(s) in Columbia Works index-

Horace Jeffery Hodges jefferyhodges at yahoo.com
Fri Jul 25 17:16:57 EDT 2008

Professor Geraghty, thanks for the information and for the offer to digitize the fruit part of the index. That would be very helpful if it's not too much trouble.
Jeffery Hodges
P.S. Thanks also to the others who have responded.

--- On Fri, 7/25/08, John Geraghty <johnegeraghty at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: John Geraghty <johnegeraghty at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Milton-L] Apples -apple(s) in Columbia Works index-
To: "'John Milton Discussion List'" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 11:48 AM

>From the Columbia Works  Index Vol.1 
p. 80:
Apple, seduced with an a, II 322 (PL10.487) crude a, that diverted Eve II 436 (PR2.349) out of rind of one a. tasted IV 310 (AR) money a. of discord in church VI 84(H).
Apples, desire of tasting a. II  281(PL9.585) like a. of Asphaltis v 263(K24) no fruit but a. and medlars XII 239 (PO6)  
Perhaps more fruitful, FRUIT and FRUITS takes up a little over three columns,   pp. 722-724
I could digitize this over the weekend if you don’t have access to the index.
There’s no Foe like a BUFOe
E arth, Aire, and Sea. Then let us not think hard
O ne easie prohibition, who enjoy
F ree leave so large to all things else, and choice
U nlimited of manifold delights:
B ut let us ever praise him, and extoll
E ncompassed round with FOEs, thus answered bold. 
O alienate from God, O Spirit accursed, 
F orsaken of all good!  I see thy fall 
E arth, air, and sea.  Then let us not think hard 
O ne easy prohibition, who enjoy 
F ree leave so large to all things else, and choice 
E  ternal anarchy, amidst the noise 
O  f endless wars, and by confusion stand. 
F  or Hot, Cold, Moist, and Dry, four champions fierce, 
D ear daughter-since thou claim'st me for thy sire, 
A nd my fair son here show'st me, the dear pledge 
O f dalliance had with thee in Heaven, and joys 
T hen sweet, now sad to mention, through dire change 
A nd daily thanks, I chiefly who enjoy 
S o farr the happier Lot, enjoying thee
P raeminent by so much odds, while thou
S hall bruise the head of Satan, crush his strength, 
D efeating Sin and Death, his two main arms; 
A nd fix far deeper in his head their stings 
T han temporal death shall bruise the victor's heel, 
O r theirs whom he redeems; a death, like sleep, 
A gentle wafting to immortal life. 
N or after resurrection shall he stay
F rom my prevailing arme, though Heavens King
R ide on thy wings, and thou with thy Compeers,
U s'd to the yoak, draw'st his triumphant wheels 
I n progress through the rode of Heav'n Star-pav'd. 
  W  hile thus he spake, th' Angelic Squadron bright
T urnd fierie red, sharpning in mooned hornes
F rom Auran Eastward to the Royal Towrs
O f Great Seleucia, built by Grecian Kings,
O r where the Sons of Eden long before
D welt in Telassar: in this pleasant soile

From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Horace Jeffery Hodges
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:49 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Apples

Jeffrey, that's precisely what I'm looking into . . . though I wasn't planning to be so upfront about it.
On Tuesday next week, however, I have a newspaper column for the Korea Herald's "Expat Living" section dealiing with this issue (in a slightly ironic way).
More importantly, I'm also trying to write a scholarly article on this point, so I'd like to know how to access secondary literature on apples in Milton.
I've found a couple of 17th- and 18th-century sources that use "apple" in the more generic sense of "fruit." When I have more information -- and after my newspaper column -- I'll post it.
Jeffery Hodges

--- On Fri, 7/25/08, Jeffrey Shoulson <jshoulson at miami.edu> wrote:

From: Jeffrey Shoulson <jshoulson at miami.edu>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Apples
To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 8:33 AMOne further follow-up on this matter.I wonder to what extent apple is used as generic term for fruit.  In a  number of languages (French and Hebrew come to mind), fruits are often  give compound names that include the word apple:  "ground-apple"  (potato), "gold-apple" (orange), etc.  Jeffrey S. Shoulson, Ph. D.Associate Professor of English and Judaic StudiesUniversity of MiamiPO Box 248145Coral Gables, FL 33156  (o) 305-284-5596(f) 305-284-2182  jshoulson at miami.eduwww.as.miami.edu/english/faculty.htm#shoulson    On Jul 25, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Horace Jeffery Hodges wrote:  > Thanks, Jeffrey and Nancy, for the posts. I had also noticed some of  > these things and blogged about them soon after Salwa Khoddam points  > out Satan's use of "apple":>  > http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/2008/06/john-milton-how-do-you- > like-them-apples.html>  >  >  >  >  > If "apple" is used elsewhere in Milton, I'd be
 interested inknowing  > (even if not obviously the fruit of the tree of knowledge).>  >  >  > Also, I'd like to know if any secondary literature exists on this  > topic of "apple" in Paradise Lost (or in Milton generally).>  >  >  > Jeffery Hodges>  >  >  > --- On Fri, 7/25/08, Jeffrey Shoulson <jshoulson at miami.edu> wrote:>> From: Jeffrey Shoulson <jshoulson at miami.edu>>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Apples>> To: "John Milton Discussion List"<milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>> Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 7:59 AM>>  >> I can't provide a comment nearly as rich and suggestive asNancy's,  >> but>> I suppose it should be remembered that the apple is also a Latin pun  >> on>> malum.>> Of course, that does not at all undermine the point about Satan's>> trivialization of the matter.  Indeed, I think it supports the point>> further.  Satan's depiction of the fruit as an apple happens even>> earlier than when he returns to Hell to report on his success. 
 He>> mentions the fruit when, as the serpent, he begins to entice Eve  >> toward>> the tree:>>  >>   Till on a day roaving the field, I chanc'd [ 575 ]>>   A goodly Tree farr distant to behold>>   Loaden with fruit of fairest colours mixt,>> Ruddie and Gold: I nearer drew to gaze;>>   When from the boughes a savorie odour blow'n,>>   Grateful to appetite, more pleas'd my sense, [ 580 ]>> Then smell of sweetest Fenel or the Teats>>   Of Ewe or Goat dropping with Milk at Eevn,>> Unsuckt of Lamb or Kid, that tend thir play.>>   To satisfie the sharp desire I had>>   Of tasting those fair Apples, I resolv'd [ 585 ]>>   Not to deferr; hunger and thirst at once,>>   Powerful perswaders,  quick'nd at the scent>>   Of that alluring fruit, urg'd me so keene.>>  >>  >> Speculations about the specific kind of fruit tree that was the Tree  >> of>> Knowledge can be found in both the early rabbinic and early patristic>> tradition.  Many
 possibilities were offered, many of them based on>> similar kinds of puns and word plays.>>  >> Jeffrey>>  >> Jeffrey S. Shoulson, Ph. D.>> Associate Professor of English and Judaic Studies>> University of Miami>> PO Box 248145>> Coral Gables, FL 33156>>  >> (o) 305-284-5596>> (f) 305-284-2182>>  >> jshoulson at miami.edu>> www.as.miami.edu/english/faculty.htm#shoulson>>  >>  >> On Jul 25, 2008, at 2:05 AM, Nancy Charlton wrote:>>  >> > Salwa makes an interesting point: Milton, in either thePoet's or  >> the>> > Narrator's voice, does not make use of the word"apple.">> Satan,>> > rather, does indeed use it to "trivialize" it--to use>> Salwa's term.>> > Indeed, this sentence excerpted from Satan's rather frantic>> > exhortation in Book X, makes the only use of the word"apple" in>> all>> > of PL that I can find:>> >>> > Him by fraud I have seduced>> >         485>> > From his Creator, and, the more to increase>> > Your wonder, with an
 apple!>> >>> > He goes on, with a sneer:>> >>> > He [the Father], thereat>> > Offended—worth your laughter!—hath given up>> > Both his beloved Man and all his World>> > To Sin and Death a prey, and so to us,>> >         490>> > Without our hazard, labour, or alarm,>> > To range in, and to dwell, and over Man>> > To rule, as over all he should have ruled.>> >>> > I remembered today as I was performing some necessary garden  >> clean-up>> > and found a rose that was trying to develop a fruit (it isn'tthe  >> kind>>  >> > of rose that has edible hips) that apples are in the sametaxonomic>> > family as roses. Just prior to the "apple" sentence,Satan>> refers to>> > the "fraud" of his seduction. The fruit, not theflower, is the>> > important concept here, perhaps. The Son is the fruition ofGod's>> > creating and is often symbolized by the rose. Milton mostly uses>> > "rose" as the past tense of "rise," but inthe opening>> of Book III>> >
 singles out "sight of vernal bloom, or summer'srose" as>> specific>> > deprivations of his blindness:>> >>> >  Thus with the year>> >        >> > Seasons return; but not to me returns>> > Day, or the sweet approach of even or morn,>> > Or sight of vernal bloom, or summer’s rose,>> > Or flocks, or herds, or human face divine;>> >>> > He doesn't mention fruit, but it seems to me that there issome>> > significance in PL in the fact that it was an apple, when itcould>> > just as well have been a pear or strawberry or a sexy bunch of  >> grapes.>> > But it was the fruit of autumn, of ripeness, by which Adam andEve>> > were defrauded.>> >  >> > I'm not sure just where this is going, but in the invocationto>> "holy>> > Light" (III.i) the poet feels that the fruition of his lifeis the>> > making of this poem, and thus it well may be that the apple, that>> > oversized rose hip, is the appropriate pome.>> >>> > In PR II.337f. Satan conjures "a table
 richly spread inregal>> mode">> > for Jesus, of which the Narrator exclaims "Alas! How simpleto these>> > cates compared,/ Was that crude apple that diverted Eve!" Noother>> > mention of "apple" is made in the poems, but in theAreopagitica>>  >> > Milton makes a passing reference: "It was from out the rindof one>> > apple tasted, that the knowledge of good and evil . . . leapedforth>> > into the world." The "rind"! Not even the meat! Nowonder>> the "table>> > richly spread" goes poof! when Jesus doesn't bite.>> >>> > Thank you for raising this question. If I hadn't been outwith the>> > shears and loppers today I'd probably never given it a second >> thought.>> >>> > Nancy Charlton>> > ------------------------>> >>> > Nancy Charlton>> >  http://groups.google.com/group/paradiselostdaily>> >>> > When it's apple blossom time>> > In Orange, New Jersey,>> > We'll make a peach of a pair!>> >>> >>> > --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Horace Jeffery
 Hodges<jefferyhodges at yahoo.com>>>  >> > wrote:>> >> From: Horace Jeffery Hodges <jefferyhodges at yahoo.com>>> >> Subject: [Milton-L] Apples>> >> To: "John Milton Discussion List">> <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>>> >> Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 4:24 PM>> >>>> >>>> >> Salwa and other Milton-Listers,>> >>>> >>  >> >>>> >> Can you direct me to what has been written on this issue ofapples  >> in>> >> Paradise Lost (or Milton generally)?>> >>>> >>  >> >>>> >> Jeffery Hodges>> >>>> >>  >> >>>> >>  >> >>>> >> Salwa Khoddam skhoddam at cox.net>> >> Tue Jun 24 21:30:47 EDT 2008>> >>>> >>      •       Previous message: [Milton-L] Abdiel>> >>      •       Next message: [Milton-L] Abdiel>> >>      •       Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [subject ] [  >> author ]>> >> Jeffery,>> >> I don't think Milton uses the word "apple" inPL.  Satan>> uses the>> >> term  in order to trivialize it.  N'est pas?>> >> Salwa
 Khoddam>> >>>> >>> > _______________________________________________>> > Milton-L mailing list>> > Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu>> > Manage your list membership and access list archives at>> > http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l>> _______________________________________________>> Milton-L mailing list>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton- >> l_______________________________________________> Milton-L mailing list> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu> Manage your list membership and access list archives at  > http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l_______________________________________________Milton-L mailing listMilton-L at lists.richmond.eduManage your list membership and access list archives athttp://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
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