[Milton-L] Apples -apple(s) in Columbia Works index-
johnegeraghty at hotmail.com
Fri Jul 25 12:48:52 EDT 2008
>From the Columbia Works Index Vol.1
Apple, seduced with an a, II 322 (PL10.487) crude a, that diverted Eve II
436 (PR2.349) out of rind of one a. tasted IV 310 (AR) money a. of discord
in church VI 84(H).
Apples, desire of tasting a. II 281(PL9.585) like a. of Asphaltis v
263(K24) no fruit but a. and medlars XII 239 (PO6)
Perhaps more fruitful, FRUIT and FRUITS takes up a little over three
columns, pp. 722-724
I could digitize this over the weekend if you don't have access to the
There's no Foe like a BUFOe
E arth, Aire, and Sea. Then let us not think hard
O ne easie prohibition, who enjoy
F ree leave so large to all things else, and choice
U nlimited of manifold delights:
B ut let us ever praise him, and extoll
E ncompassed round with FOEs, thus answered bold.
O alienate from God, O Spirit accursed,
F orsaken of all good! I see thy fall
E arth, air, and sea. Then let us not think hard
O ne easy prohibition, who enjoy
F ree leave so large to all things else, and choice
E ternal anarchy, amidst the noise
O f endless wars, and by confusion stand.
F or Hot, Cold, Moist, and Dry, four champions fierce,
D ear daughter-since thou claim'st me for thy sire,
A nd my fair son here show'st me, the dear pledge
O f dalliance had with thee in Heaven, and joys
T hen sweet, now sad to mention, through dire change
A nd daily thanks, I chiefly who enjoy
S o farr the happier Lot, enjoying thee
P raeminent by so much odds, while thou
S hall bruise the head of Satan, crush his strength,
D efeating Sin and Death, his two main arms;
A nd fix far deeper in his head their stings
T han temporal death shall bruise the victor's heel,
O r theirs whom he redeems; a death, like sleep,
A gentle wafting to immortal life.
N or after resurrection shall he stay
F rom my prevailing arme, though Heavens King
R ide on thy wings, and thou with thy Compeers,
U s'd to the yoak, draw'st his triumphant wheels
I n progress through the rode of Heav'n Star-pav'd.
W hile thus he spake, th' Angelic Squadron bright
T urnd fierie red, sharpning in mooned hornes
F rom Auran Eastward to the Royal Towrs
O f Great Seleucia, built by Grecian Kings,
O r where the Sons of Eden long before
D welt in Telassar: in this pleasant soile
From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
[mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Horace Jeffery
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:49 AM
To: John Milton Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Apples
Jeffrey, that's precisely what I'm looking into . . . though I wasn't
planning to be so upfront about it.
On Tuesday next week, however, I have a newspaper column for the Korea
Herald's "Expat Living" section dealiing with this issue (in a slightly
More importantly, I'm also trying to write a scholarly article on this
point, so I'd like to know how to access secondary literature on apples in
I've found a couple of 17th- and 18th-century sources that use "apple" in
the more generic sense of "fruit." When I have more information -- and after
my newspaper column -- I'll post it.
--- On Fri, 7/25/08, Jeffrey Shoulson <jshoulson at miami.edu> wrote:
From: Jeffrey Shoulson <jshoulson at miami.edu>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Apples
To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 8:33 AM
One further follow-up on this matter.
I wonder to what extent apple is used as generic term for fruit. In a
number of languages (French and Hebrew come to mind), fruits are often
give compound names that include the word apple: "ground-apple"
(potato), "gold-apple" (orange), etc.
Jeffrey S. Shoulson, Ph. D.
Associate Professor of English and Judaic Studies
University of Miami
PO Box 248145
Coral Gables, FL 33156
jshoulson at miami.edu
On Jul 25, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Horace Jeffery Hodges wrote:
> Thanks, Jeffrey and Nancy, for the posts. I had also noticed some of
> these things and blogged about them soon after Salwa Khoddam points
> out Satan's use of "apple":
> If "apple" is used elsewhere in Milton, I'd be interested in
> (even if not obviously the fruit of the tree of knowledge).
> Also, I'd like to know if any secondary literature exists on this
> topic of "apple" in Paradise Lost (or in Milton generally).
> Jeffery Hodges
> --- On Fri, 7/25/08, Jeffrey Shoulson <jshoulson at miami.edu> wrote:
>> From: Jeffrey Shoulson <jshoulson at miami.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Apples
>> To: "John Milton Discussion List"
<milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>> Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 7:59 AM
>> I can't provide a comment nearly as rich and suggestive as
>> I suppose it should be remembered that the apple is also a Latin pun
>> Of course, that does not at all undermine the point about Satan's
>> trivialization of the matter. Indeed, I think it supports the point
>> further. Satan's depiction of the fruit as an apple happens even
>> earlier than when he returns to Hell to report on his success. He
>> mentions the fruit when, as the serpent, he begins to entice Eve
>> the tree:
>> Till on a day roaving the field, I chanc'd [ 575 ]
>> A goodly Tree farr distant to behold
>> Loaden with fruit of fairest colours mixt,
>> Ruddie and Gold: I nearer drew to gaze;
>> When from the boughes a savorie odour blow'n,
>> Grateful to appetite, more pleas'd my sense, [ 580 ]
>> Then smell of sweetest Fenel or the Teats
>> Of Ewe or Goat dropping with Milk at Eevn,
>> Unsuckt of Lamb or Kid, that tend thir play.
>> To satisfie the sharp desire I had
>> Of tasting those fair Apples, I resolv'd [ 585 ]
>> Not to deferr; hunger and thirst at once,
>> Powerful perswaders, quick'nd at the scent
>> Of that alluring fruit, urg'd me so keene.
>> Speculations about the specific kind of fruit tree that was the Tree
>> Knowledge can be found in both the early rabbinic and early patristic
>> tradition. Many possibilities were offered, many of them based on
>> similar kinds of puns and word plays.
>> Jeffrey S. Shoulson, Ph. D.
>> Associate Professor of English and Judaic Studies
>> University of Miami
>> PO Box 248145
>> Coral Gables, FL 33156
>> (o) 305-284-5596
>> (f) 305-284-2182
>> jshoulson at miami.edu
>> On Jul 25, 2008, at 2:05 AM, Nancy Charlton wrote:
>> > Salwa makes an interesting point: Milton, in either the
>> > Narrator's voice, does not make use of the word
>> > rather, does indeed use it to "trivialize" it--to use
>> Salwa's term.
>> > Indeed, this sentence excerpted from Satan's rather frantic
>> > exhortation in Book X, makes the only use of the word
>> > of PL that I can find:
>> > Him by fraud I have seduced
>> > 485
>> > From his Creator, and, the more to increase
>> > Your wonder, with an apple!
>> > He goes on, with a sneer:
>> > He [the Father], thereat
>> > Offended-worth your laughter!-hath given up
>> > Both his beloved Man and all his World
>> > To Sin and Death a prey, and so to us,
>> > 490
>> > Without our hazard, labour, or alarm,
>> > To range in, and to dwell, and over Man
>> > To rule, as over all he should have ruled.
>> > I remembered today as I was performing some necessary garden
>> > and found a rose that was trying to develop a fruit (it isn't
>> > of rose that has edible hips) that apples are in the same
>> > family as roses. Just prior to the "apple" sentence,
>> refers to
>> > the "fraud" of his seduction. The fruit, not the
flower, is the
>> > important concept here, perhaps. The Son is the fruition of
>> > creating and is often symbolized by the rose. Milton mostly uses
>> > "rose" as the past tense of "rise," but in
>> of Book III
>> > singles out "sight of vernal bloom, or summer's
>> > deprivations of his blindness:
>> > Thus with the year
>> > Seasons return; but not to me returns
>> > Day, or the sweet approach of even or morn,
>> > Or sight of vernal bloom, or summer's rose,
>> > Or flocks, or herds, or human face divine;
>> > He doesn't mention fruit, but it seems to me that there is
>> > significance in PL in the fact that it was an apple, when it
>> > just as well have been a pear or strawberry or a sexy bunch of
>> > But it was the fruit of autumn, of ripeness, by which Adam and
>> > were defrauded.
>> > I'm not sure just where this is going, but in the invocation
>> > Light" (III.i) the poet feels that the fruition of his life
>> > making of this poem, and thus it well may be that the apple, that
>> > oversized rose hip, is the appropriate pome.
>> > In PR II.337f. Satan conjures "a table richly spread in
>> > for Jesus, of which the Narrator exclaims "Alas! How simple
>> > cates compared,/ Was that crude apple that diverted Eve!" No
>> > mention of "apple" is made in the poems, but in the
>> > Milton makes a passing reference: "It was from out the rind
>> > apple tasted, that the knowledge of good and evil . . . leaped
>> > into the world." The "rind"! Not even the meat! No
>> the "table
>> > richly spread" goes poof! when Jesus doesn't bite.
>> > Thank you for raising this question. If I hadn't been out
>> > shears and loppers today I'd probably never given it a second
>> > Nancy Charlton
>> > ------------------------
>> > Nancy Charlton
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/paradiselostdaily
>> > When it's apple blossom time
>> > In Orange, New Jersey,
>> > We'll make a peach of a pair!
>> > --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Horace Jeffery Hodges
<jefferyhodges at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> From: Horace Jeffery Hodges <jefferyhodges at yahoo.com>
>> >> Subject: [Milton-L] Apples
>> >> To: "John Milton Discussion List"
>> <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>> >> Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 4:24 PM
>> >> Salwa and other Milton-Listers,
>> >> Can you direct me to what has been written on this issue of
>> >> Paradise Lost (or Milton generally)?
>> >> Jeffery Hodges
>> >> Salwa Khoddam skhoddam at cox.net
>> >> Tue Jun 24 21:30:47 EDT 2008
>> >> . Previous message: [Milton-L] Abdiel
>> >> . Next message: [Milton-L] Abdiel
>> >> . Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [
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>> author ]
>> >> Jeffery,
>> >> I don't think Milton uses the word "apple" in
>> uses the
>> >> term in order to trivialize it. N'est pas?
>> >> Salwa Khoddam
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