[Milton-L] Abdiel (thought-sins)

James Rovira jamesrovira at gmail.com
Mon Jul 7 00:26:24 EDT 2008

Harold -- Just to make sure i understand you, then -- there is no
dream Eve, just the one real Eve, and when she felt (in her dream) an
apparently irresistible desire to eat the fruit, that desire was
injected into her by Satan somehow, so that it wasn't her own desire?
This seems to fit Eve's own description of her dream, as she says at
the beginning she was unsure she was dreaming, and at the end she was
unsure it was indeed a dream until she woke and saw Adam.

Eve does say also that her dream that night  was different -- she
usually dreams of Adam, or of the day's work, or of the next day's
plans.  That night, she dreamed of herself.

Jeffery is right to point out that the text never says Eve ate the
fruit: just that the fruit was held to her mouth (not thrust in,
though).  But Satan does say that when Eve eats the fruit she will be
like God and the angels, not confined to earth, and immediately after
having the fruit held to her mouth she surveys the earth from a sky
perspective.  I think it's safe to say that Satan attempted to create
the impression that Eve ate the fruit.

Jim R

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 11:48 PM, Harold Skulsky
<hskulsky at email.smith.edu> wrote:
> "If you say that the real Eve "desires the fruit irresistibly," then you identify the Eve of Eve's dream with the real Eve, rather than saying that the dream Eve doesn't exist except as an image in Eve's dream."
> If by "identify the Eve of Eve's dream with the real Eve," you mean "interpet an image in Eve's dream as standing for Eve," then I plead innocent to the charge. If you mean something else, then I'm afraid I don't know what you mean and am regrettably unable to plead to the charge at all.
> In any case, I am not arguing that "the dream Eve doesn't exist EXCEPT AS an image in Eve's dream," siince I deny the existence of any such image in Eve's dream as presented by Milton, much less the existence of a dream image of Eve desiring the fruit irresistibly.
> All of this falls out of my analysis of what it is for Eve to dream that XYZ is happening to her (q.v.).

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