[Milton-L] Abdiel (thought-sins)

James Rovira jamesrovira at gmail.com
Sun Jul 6 21:02:12 EDT 2008


I'm a bit unsure how to understand the following:

<<My point has been simply that those responses, characteristic
or otherwise, are still the real responses experienced  by the real Eve,
not the dream responses of a surrogate that Eve is dreaming about. When
we say that Eve desires the fruit irresistibly, all we can mean, given
what we are told, is precisely that she has been caused to have — to
have in all actuality — desires that are absolutely un-Eve-ish.>>

If you say that the real Eve "desires the fruit irresistibly," then
you identify the Eve of Eve's dream with the real Eve, rather than
saying that the dream Eve doesn't exist except as an image in Eve's

Jeffery -- I don't think we're taking seriously enough the fact that
all Eve's capacities have been created by God, so that we can't allow,
say, fancy to desire the fruit with the excuse that reason is
sleeping.  If anything created by God desires evil for itself, then
God created a desire for evil -- and God is responsible for evil.
This contradicts Adam's own reasoning about Eve being morally pure,
and ignores that Adam is creating the only possible explanation for
Eve's dream that he can without knowing about Satan.  In other words,
Adam was mistaken about the source of Eve's dream.  I'm not sure that
the narrative of PL really allows for an either/or here -- either
fancy, or Satan -- as we witnessed Satan crouching by Eve and
inspiring the dream.  The real Eve was repulsed by the dream, and I
think she was repulsed with her entire being.

Jim R

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