[Milton-L] Re: AV/KJV

Horace Jeffery Hodges jefferyhodges at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 13 14:51:28 EDT 2007


My question is a bit off-topic, but tangential.
   
  On my blog, I identified two biblical quotes in the lastest and last of the J.K. Rowling series (Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows)  as coming from the KJV:
   
    http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/2007/08/rowlings-bible.html
   
  "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Matthew 6:21 or Luke 12:34)
   
  "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26)
  
In a comment, Larry Swain suggested the Anglican liturgy as the source:
   
    Quite an interesting study. I would think though that given that Rowling is English, and trained at Oxford in Classics for a time, that her translation is most likely the KJV, coupled with the fact that it is the only translation that contains both quotations.

I might refine it further though. I'd suggest that the quotes come not directly from the KJV itself, but from Anglican liturgy. Both phrases occur at various points in the liturgy and throughout the church year.
   
  I assumed that Larry meant the BCP, but perhaps the liturgy and the BCP are different? Anyway, did the BCP or Anglican liturgy use the AV(/KJV) for the two verses that I've noted above?
   
  And, since Rowling is a member of the Church of Scotland, would she be using the BCP or Anglican liturgy at all?
   
  Sorry to lead this discussion off-topic, but perhaps this might be interesting for some.
   
  Jeffery Hodges
   
  
Beth Quitslund <quitslun at ohio.edu> wrote:
  As far as prose psalms for Morning and Evening Prayer, I think it's safe to assume that most but not all congregations would have heard the Great Bible psalms. They were almost always bound with the Book of Common Prayer, and the printer Christopher Barker in 1582 complains that although he as the queen's printer has the rights to the BCP, his sales are significantly reduced by the patent to William Seres for the Great Bible Psalter, which ought to be considered a part of the liturgy. (He makes the same complaint about Day's patent for the metrical psalms, which never had any official authorization at all). Technically, however, from 1549 until 1662 it was permissible to read the daily psalms in any language understood by the congregation (which primarily means that Latin was ok for the universities). The Great Bible psalter was officially incorporated into the liturgy in 1662. As to why James didn't push for the use of the AV psalms in common prayers, I don't know, but
 my *suspicion* is that he knew that asking convocation and especially parliament to tinker with the BCP in one way would positively invite a Puritan assault on other parts of it. 

Hannibal is right that the BCP has been under-attended to by our ilk. One positive development is that Brian Cummings is working on a massive new original-spelling critical edition for Oxford World's Classics, which will include 1549, 1559, and 1662. 

Cheers,
Beth



At 10:29 AM 9/13/2007, you wrote:

  It's true that there were several translations used in English churches, but this is primarily for the Psalms, I think (apart from biblical bits and pieces quoted or paraphrased by Cranmer).  The Coverdale Psalms from the Great Bible were traditionally (since Edwardian days) included with the BCP, and the metrical Psalms of the Sternhold and Hopkins psalter were used for congregational singing (which was the widespread practice in parish churches -- cathedrals and college chapels had professional choirs that did the singing).  As to why the Psalms of the BCP were never changed, this is a great question.  My sense is that the BCP is generally underexplored, by literary scholars.  I think there was ongoing tinkering with Coverdale's texts, in a minor and anonymous fashion, but they remained essentially the same -- perhaps becuase they simply became familiar and accustomed, or perhaps just because they were good (on a personal note, I still tend to prefer the m to the KJV,
 though I too am accustomed to them from years of church-singing as a choirboy).  I'm not sure, though, exactly which versions were used and when -- and I don't know if anyone does (the BCP doesn't make this clear).  When Psalms were read through as part of the liturgy, was this from the BCP Psalms or from the Bible?  Did it simply depend on which book was in the hand of the reader (i.e., whether the text was read from the lectern, where the official Bible was open, or from the hand of a priest or deacon in the Choir)?  My sense is that much of what went on in the actual practice of worship (as opposed to printed rubrics) is unclear, like the singing of Psalms or anthems, for instance, which could fit in at different points.

Hannibal


Hannibal Hamlin 
Associate Professor of English 
The Ohio State University 
Book Review Editor and Associate Editor, Reformation 

Mailing Address (2007-2009): 

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Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3272521208_139859" --B_3272521208_139859 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Isn=B9t it true that the KJV was never =B3read in all the churches=B2 exclu= sively, because the Book of Common Prayer used the Great Bible text? Why wasn=B9t t= he BCP revised under James I to use KJV translations of the Psalms and incorporated Biblical =B3lessons=B2? Was the KJV read for the lessons that = were not incorporated in the BCP? Michael --=20 BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 417736773) is spam: Spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=3Ds&i=3D417736773&m=3D989ae27 =
0639a Not spam: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=3Dn&i=3D417736773&m=3D989ae27 =
0639a Forget vote: https://antispam.osu.edu/b.php?c=3Df&i=3D417736773&m=3D989ae27 =
0639a ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS --B_3272521208_139859 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I= sn’t it true that the KJV was never “read in all the churches&#=
8221; exclusively, because the Book of Common Prayer used the Great Bible t= ext? Why wasn’t the BCP revised under James I to use KJV translations= of the Psalms and incorporated Biblical “lessons? Was the KJV= read for the lessons that were not incorporated in the BCP?

Michael
  
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==============================================

Beth Quitslund
Assistant Professor of English

Department of English
Ohio University          
Athens, OH 45701
phone: (740) 593-2829
FAX: (740) 593-2818
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University Degrees:

Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley
(Doctoral Thesis: "Food as Synecdoche in John's Gospel and Gnostic Texts")
M.A., History of Science, U.C. Berkeley
B.A., English Language and Literature, Baylor University

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