[Milton-L] Re: porno vs. art?

Salwa Khoddam skhoddam at cox.net
Tue Nov 29 18:47:29 EST 2005

These latest postings about porno vs. art, have taught me much about 
sexuality, though I was ready to puke at the last three passages offered (by 
Donne, Rochester, and I'm not sure who the author of the third one is.   I 
suppose they were offered as samples of what is and what is not 
pornographic.   I'm noticing that this thread has been the most popular that 
we've had so far, at least recently, and that most of the contributors  are 
male.  This observation is leading me to some personal conclusions about 
pornography.  It is a creation of males and propagated *ad nauseam* by males 
to other males.  I wish these males would look at these three passages  from 
the women's point of view.  Just try to imagine being the woman in these 
situations. You have a woman who is the object of a man's gaze (albeit he is 
her husband) in the first one, a woman who is being overwhelmed by a 
narcissistic, vain lover in the second, and another who is simply abused in 
the third.  What do these passages have in common?  Males flaunting their 
sexual power over women in many diverse ways, who are more interested in the 
conquest than the process of love.  All these women are made into objects to 
serve a disgusting, flaunting, infantile, voyeuristic  male sexuality 
enjoyed by rakes and senile old men.  High poetic diction doesn't redeem any 
of these works.  Such sexuality, my friends, is pornography.  Thanks for 
enlightening me on what it is.
Ms. Salwa Khoddam
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Strier" <rastrier at uchicago.edu>
To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re: porno vs. art?

> Re child porno-- what if it is only imagined?  Or what if it is a painter 
> or photographer with a model?
> Again, consider Balthus and various photographers.  I think that we should 
> be very careful before we start advocating the censorship of anything. 
> Moral high horses tend to get out of control.  Remember: censorship 
> involves written or otherwise reproduced material.  There are laws on the 
> books for particular crimes -- rape, abduction, kidnapping, abuse, etc. 
> Let's persecute crimes, and not representations!
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