[Milton-L] Re: porno vs. art?

berry bberry at vcu.edu
Thu Nov 24 15:50:26 EST 2005


I've always been amused by her first response--my goodness, a talking snake.
And only slowly does she indicate that she's aware of the flattery.

Boyd Berry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Horace Jeffery Hodges" <jefferyhodges at yahoo.com>
To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re: porno vs. art?


> While Eve may have been no virgin, she was
> "pedestaled" by Adam, something that Rafael warned him
> about because it placed Eve above her station. Milton
> critiques the conventions of courtly love, the
> flattery and elevation of the woman to position of
> love-goddess to be worshipped.
>
> And how does Satan begin and carry out his temptation?
> With Petrarchan-style language of courtly love.
>
> And here's where I'd disagree somewhat with Carol.
> Satan's flattery is effective. His words make their
> way into her heart because they elevate her, precisely
> the promise offered in the temptation scene as Satan's
> words begin to have their effect. The fruit is offered
> as the solution: This will elevate you, Eve, to
> goddess.
>
> Jeffery Hodges
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
> Richard Strier wrote:
>
> Re one part of Carol's remarks:  whatever Eve is
> before the Fall (I'd say a very sexy and intelligent
> naked woman), she's not a "pedestaled virgin" (neither
> one nor the other), and whatever she is immediately
> after the fall (I'd say a very sexy and intelligent
> naked woman), she is certainly not "a two-bit whore"
> (though I think this contempt for lower class
> sex-workers needs scrutiny, and, of course, the whole
> "virgin-whore" system is a nonsensical and oppressive
> one).  I do think that Adam casts "lascivious eyes" on
> Eve before the Fall.  Why not?  Of course, she's not a
> courtesan (though, again, I see no reason to have
> contempt for such-- some were accomplished poets).
> But why not let her be a little bit of a flirt?  Is
> that a crime or a sin or a sign of fallenness?  Milton
> praises her delicious amorous delay.  That she is a
> femme fatale is part of the plot.
>
> University Degrees:
>
> Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley
> (Doctoral Thesis: "Food as Synecdoche in John's Gospel and Gnostic Texts")
> M.A., History of Science, U.C. Berkeley
> B.A., English Language and Literature, Baylor University
>
> Email Address:
>
> jefferyhodges at yahoo.com
>
> Blog:
>
> http://gypsyscholarship.blogspot.com/
>
> Office Address:
>
> Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
> Department of English Language and Literature
> Korea University
> 136-701 Anam-dong, Seongbuk-gu
> Seoul
> South Korea
>
> Home Address:
>
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