[Milton-L] death in Eden.

Peter C. Herman herman2 at mail.sdsu.edu
Sun Nov 21 18:43:53 EST 2004


At 04:29 PM 11/21/2004, you wrote:
>Dear Douglas,
>There is no death in Eden yet.  In Satan, yes because he has fallen. 
>Therefore, he sees death where no death exists yet.  Death exists in the 
>warped mind of Satan [....]

Is this exactly right? Satan does bump into Death (and Sin) on his way out 
of hell. Arguably, death arose from Satan's mind: Sin literally pops out of 
Satan's head, then they have sex, then Death is born, so in a very weird 
way, Death is the idea of an idea. But Death certainly exists outside of 
Satan's mind before he gets to Earth.

Peter C. Herman


>  and through the imagery that Milton uses of our postlapsarian world, we 
> the readers.
>Salwa Khoddam
>Professor of English
>Oklahoma City University
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglass A Bourne" <DA-Bourne at wiu.edu>
>To: "Milton" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 4:39 PM
>Subject: [Milton-L] death in Eden.
>
>
>>I am a graduate student taking a Milton seminar.  Soon I must have a working
>>thesis statement to present to the class.  I could use some guidance in a
>>couple of areas.  I want to explore death in Eden.
>>I am working with four images, three subtle and one blatant.  The three 
>>subtle
>>images involve Satan:  "As when a prowling Wolf, / Whom hunger drives to seek
>>new haunt for prey" (IV 183,184).  "Sat like a Cormorant" (IV 196).  A
>>Cormorant eats dead things.  "A Lion now he stalks with fiery glare, / 
>>Then as
>>a Tiger, who by chance hat spi'd / In some Purlieu two gentle Fawns at 
>>play, /
>>Straight couches close, then rising changes oft / His couchant watch, as one
>>who chose his ground / Whence rushing he might surest seize them both / Gript
>>in each paw" (IV 402-408).  Satan wants to kill the deer but gets 
>>distracted by
>>Adam and Eve.
>>The blatant image is also from book four.  A lion has a kid in its
>>paws.  "Sporting the Lion ramp'd, and in his paw / Dandl'd the Kid" 
>>(343,344).
>>I checked the OED for definitions of the words out my (our) present usage and
>>it does indeed sound like the lion has killed a kid.
>>The problems that I am having are that I can't find scholarship on death in
>>Eden.  I know there is a debate of something like; did nature fall before 
>>man?
>>Yet I can't find scholarship on the fall of nature.  Since Milton does have
>>some images of death in Eden I would like to explore possibly what that says
>>about the fall of nature.  Is death allowed in Eden for nature, without 
>>nature
>>falling?  If that is the case then Milton sets Adam and Eve clearly apart 
>>from
>>nature.  Nature has death, yet Adam and Eve do not.  Plus the lions, 
>>tigers and
>>bears (oh my), don't think of Adam and Eve as food.
>>I am sure that I am not blazing a new trail.  There must be some articles at
>>least somewhat related to this idea.  But I am so frustrated with not being
>>able to find articles I'm thinking of scraping the idea.  Is a paper on this
>>idea feasible?  If so, are there some essays that I should read?
>>I appreciate any and all guidance.
>>Douglass Bourne
>>Graduate Assistant
>>Western Illinois University
>>
>>
>>
>>
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