[Milton-L] Samson as suicide bomber

Thu May 14 17:24:04 EDT 2009

Well, I won't presume to speak for anyone else, but
I don't think Samson's strength returns (in SA) as a
result of any divine action. At 1355, Samson refers
to his strength "again returning with [his] hair."
I'm not entirely sure what to make of that--is the
returned strength (a fact borne out by the poem) a
function of the regrowth of his hair, with Yahweh
taking no further part in it, as if once the
"Consecrated gift" (1354) was given, it was neither
revoked nor re-given once betrayed? That is the
position I incline to, but I'd be most interested in
hearing what others think about it.

Michael Bryson

---- Original message ----

  Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:10:10 -0400
  From: "Schwartz, Louis" <lschwart at richmond.edu>
  Subject: RE: [Milton-L] Samson as suicide bomber
  To: "'John Milton Discussion List'"
  <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>

  I’m interested in another question that Jonathan
  raised in this discussion, one that seems to have
  passed without comment. 
  I quote:

  "...God restores Samson's strength to destroy
  more Philistines in one act than he had killed in
  his entire lifetime
  (including himself). So why the restoration of
  strength at the end?"

  This strikes me as a very good question.  How do
  those of you who claim that, for Milton in SA,
  Samson's final act had no divine sanction answer
  it? 

  I'm not immersed in the literature on Samson
  Agonistes right now, and I don’t
  recall from the last time I was just how Derek or
  Michael or for that matter
  Joseph Wittreich or others have dealt with the
  problems the question raises. 
  I can think of several different ways in which
  those problems might be dealt
  with, but none of them seem entirely satisfying to
  me—at least not in
  support of the various “anti-Samsonist”
  arguments.

  Apologies if this is too obvious (and if it has
  already
  been heavily debated in the literature—if so,
  please post citations, so I
  can do some homework).  It just suddenly struck me
  this afternoon that it is
  clearly asserted in Judges and (I think) simply
  assumed in SA that Samson required and received
  superhuman
  strength (and if not from God then from whom?) to
  topple the pillars by hand,
  and that the assumption has perhaps been at times
  forgotten in discussions of
  the play.

  Louis

  ===========================

  Louis Schwartz

  Associate Professor of English

  University of Richmond

  Richmond, VA  23173

  (804) 289-8315

  lschwart at richmond.edu

  -----Original Message-----
  From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
  [mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On
  Behalf Of jonnyangel
  Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:56 PM
  To: John Milton Discussion List
  Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Samson as suicide bomber

  They were rhetorical questions. And why would I
  need
  Wikipedia when I have

  perfectly good Encyclopedia's lying next to my
  bed?
  Samuel is the author

  most often attributed with writing Judges. A lot
  of
  blame shifting, cherry

  picking etc. ensues. The Israelites enemies, the
  Canaanites (Philistines,

  Sidonians, and Hivites) all set up shop in the
  kingless land of the

  Israelites (there's a reason Samson was the 12th
  judge). When the "mayoral"

  system fails <boom> "monarchy".
  (Saul's, I believe). Like I said, I have

  theories about why Milton placed SA "last".
  And as I said above, there's a

  reason Samson was the 12th judge (a far cry from
  Othniel). Samson was a

  prick, but he was not that unusual in his fall
  from
  grace, either.

  And I'm well aware that Christ was a Nazarene and
  *not* a "Nazirite", but it

  feels as though we're splitting rather long hairs
  here.

  There are *many* similarities too lengthy to get
  into
  here (off to school),

  but it has been argued that Jesus *was* a
  Nazirite, in
  part because Nazarene

  is absent in the Hebrew Scriptures.

  On 5/14/09 7:21 AM, "James Rovira"
  <jamesrovira at gmail.com> wrote:

  > Jonny --

  >

  > A Nazarene in the sense that Christ was a
  Nazarene is someone who

  > comes from the region of Nazareth.  A
  Nazirite is one who has taken a

  > vow requiring him to not drink wine, not touch
  anything dead, and not

  > cut his hair.  These vows are usually taken
  for limited periods of

  > time: Paul is recorded as taking such a vow in
  the book of Acts.

  >

  > Samson was unusual in that he was supposed to be
  a Nazirite his entire

  > life. He broke his vows, of course -- allowing
  his hair to be cut was

  > the last vow to be broken, so he lost his
  strength.  When he hair grew

  > back, he prayed and regained his strength, using
  it to kill off the

  > Philistine nobility.

  >

  > As much as we agonize over this event today, it
  was a morally

  > unambiguous act for the author of Judges, for
  the
  author of the book

  > of Hebrews, and probably for Milton given his
  support of Parliament

  > during the English Civil War.  Most readers
  of this episode throughout

  > history have thought something along the lines
  of, "those bastards

  > needed to die" -- roughly equivalent to the
  way most of those watching

  > The Dark Knight felt about The Joker at the end.

  >

  > We're egalitarian and tolerant, however, so
  can't
  think that way.

  >

  > Anyway, Christ was a Nazarene but not a
  Nazirite.

  >

  > Rather than post this to the list you could have
  saved yourself some

  > trouble just by doing a Wikipedia search. 
  Type "Nazarene" into

  > Wikipedia and read the first line on the page.

  >

  > Jim R

  >

  > On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:37 PM, jonnyangel
  <junkopardner at comcast.net> wrote:

  >> What *is* the "distinct"
  difference? Are there any theologians on the list?

  >> No booze? Growing your hair? I'm putting you
  to the test here...

  >>

  >> There are more similarities than differences.

  >>

  >> JA

  >

  >>

  >> On 5/13/09 10:18 PM, "Salwa
  Khoddam" <skhoddam at cox.net> wrote:

  >

  >>>

  >>>

  >>> There is a distinct difference between a
  "Nazarite" and a "Nazarene". Samson

  >>> was the former.

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