[Milton-L] Milton and Gardens: queries
on JM's aesthetics
Michael Bryson
michael.bryson at csun.edu
Tue Jun 23 21:56:10 EDT 2009
Jeffrey,
If the walls of Hell are "solely to keep inhabitants
inside the bounds" then I'd say someone has some
explaining to do. I don't think PL gives much
evidence that they were so intended, however, unless
we read the Father as an incompetent (and though it
is no secret how negatively I read that character, I
do not think he is drawn as a bumbler or
mistake-maker). The walls of Eden do not seem
designed to keep anyone out, either, as if they
were, we are once again faced with the idea of a
failure in design--though your idea that the
"failure" of the walls is a pedagogical prompt to
get Adam and Eve thinking about the real source of
protection is an interesting one.
I was not trying to be sarcastic about labor in Eden
(or about labor in general). Quite the contrary, I
take the issue very seriously. Manual labor that
seems to stretch out to no end, as the days, and
years, and decades (and in the case of Adam and Eve,
centuries and millennia) go by, is one of my ideas
of Hell..."darkness visible" is the view from the
third shift at a non-union piecework factory...and
here in California, there are many people who might
beg to differ about the pleasant and creative nature
of working in the fields without respite, without
end.
Am I "fundamentally overlooking Milton's goal of
stating that labor was not a punishment for sin"?
No, because I do not understand his depiction of
labor in the way that you do. Labor may not have
intially been punitive, but it becomes so. What it
was intially (what purpose it served to create a
garden that "tended to wild") is another matter. I
see it as a matter--as Raphael puts it in book 8,
and as you mentioned as well--of "inur[ing] prompt
obedience" (239-40).
Best,
Michael Bryson
---- Original message ----
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:26:54 -0400
From: "Jeffrey Theis" <jtheis at salemstate.edu>
Subject: RE: [Milton-L] Milton and Gardens:
queries on JM's aesthetics
To: "'John Milton Discussion List'"
<milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>Dear Michael and Gardner,
>
>I would tend to agree with Gardner's point in his
email below.
>
>Michael, I will not take on the entirety of your
previous email. I like
>the discussion lists, but I also find that at a
certain point scholarly
>articles are the better means to lay out an
argument with the complexity
>and nuance that a topic like Milton's garden
deserves. Milton-L is a
>great starting point, but for the kind of level
of specificity you want
>to engage in, I don't have that kind of time or
energy.
>
>You are right that I am oversimplifying Strier's
argument. Point well
>taken. But I also think his article, while nicely
stirring the pot, does
>tap into some of the merits of Eden that your
email does not.
>
>You are also right to think of walls of Hell and
Eden together, but I
>would point out that the walls of the garden are
not serving the same
>function as the walls of Hell. They are not
solely to keep inhabitants
>inside the bounds. I think that researching early
modern gardens and
>garden theory, especially in regard to enclosed
gardens, helpfully
>illuminates the discussion. Hell is not a garden
and that should
>influence how we see what (and who) is being
enclosed (and who might be
>kept out). I have argued in "'The Purlieus of
Heaven': Milton's Eden as
>a Pastoral Forest" that the walls mainly should
be seen as protection
>from external threats, but that Satan's easy
leaping of the walls forces
>Adam and Eve to reconsider what protection is and
where it comes
>from--protection is not a material thing.
>
>As for horticultural labor being an onerous task
and your sarcastic
>dismissal of my argument that such labor can
focus one's mind in a way
>that leads to knowledge (and pleasure), I think
that you are
>fundamentally overlooking Milton's goal of
stating that labor was not a
>punishment for sin. Labor was present before
human sin, and it was good.
>Members of the list who are interested in a
larger discussion of the
>merits of gardening labor might wish to read the
first several chapters
>of Robert Pogue Harrison's *Gardens: An Essay on
the Human Condition*
>(Chicago UP, 2008).
>
>Michael, you may believe that Milton fails in
this attempt to render
>labor as a positive act, or you may not like his
argument but those are
>different things. My sense is that you have a
better argument against
>labor if you just focus on Raphael's account of
his being sent to guard
>Hell in Book 8 (229-40). That is a good place to
apply a Marxist
>critique of labor.
>
>Regards,
>
>Jeff
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Jeffrey S. Theis
>Assistant Professor; Department of English
>233 Meier Hall
>Mailing Address:
> Salem State College
> 352 Lafayette Street
> Salem, MA 01970-5353
>Phone:(978) 542-6845
>E-Mail: jtheis at salemstate.edu
>SSC Web Profile:
https://www.salemstate.edu/profile/jtheis/
>Home Page: http://www.salemstate.edu/~jtheis/
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>>>> "Campbell, W. Gardner"
<Gardner_Campbell at baylor.edu> 6/22/2009 6:41
>PM >>>
>I’ve tried to work through some of these
arguments myself in a couple
>of conference papers (esp. one called “Milton
Bound”) as well as in
>“Paradisal Appetite and Cusan Food in *Paradise
Lost*” (*Arenas of
>Conflict: Milton and the Unfettered Mind*, 1997).
In my view, the
>Empsonian arguments are not so much wrong as
incomplete. I think Milton
>is shaping the complexities of these situations
much more deliberately
>and provocatively—and in a richer, more nuanced
theological
>manner—than Empson believed him to be.
>Gardner Campbell
>From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
>[mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On
Behalf Of Michael
>Bryson
>Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:32 PM
>To: John Milton Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Milton and Gardens:
queries on JM's aesthetics
>
>As one who has been accused of making too-large
leaps myself, I'd like
>to chime in on behalf of both leap-making, and
the idea of associating
>the garden walls with both restriction (for Adam
and Eve) and focus
>(perhaps for Adam and Eve, but definitely for
Satan).
>
>It is true that not all of the boundaries in the
epic are equivalent,
>but that is a truth not particularly revelatory.
What would be more to
>the point, I think, is to argue for/against a
construction of which
>boundaries *are* equivalent, or at least
functionally similar. The walls
>of Hell and the walls of Eden are--at least to
this reader--similar in a
>crucial way. They *seem* designed to keep
inhabitants (temporarily)
>inside, but neither does in the end. In each
case, an encounter with Sin
>and/or sin leads to moving outside the walls. In
fact, in each case, the
>boundaries have the effect of bringing the
potential sinner in contact
>with the object of, and opportunity for sin.
Almost an arranged marriage
>of sin and sinner, it seems...at the very least,
a nicely set up blind
>date. Without the walls, Satan may never be
reunited with that touching
>little family of his (and without the family, he
never would have
>managed to get outside the walls), and without
the walls of Eden, Satan
>would, at the very least, have had to expend more
time and effort to
>find and tempt Adam and Eve (can't have one's
intended victims simply
>wandering all about, now can one?).
>
>And coming to a richer knowledge of creation
through horticultural
>tasks? That is one of the loveliest euphemisms
for manual labor I've
>encountered in the years since I have been
fortunate enough not to have
>to support myself by sweating in the noonday sun.
It is also a lovely
>euphemism for the Near Middle Eastern mythic
motif of humans being
>created as agricultural worker drones,
labor-saving devices for the
>gods. In the epic Atrahasis, man is created
specifically as a servant or
>beast of burden: "So that he may bear the yoke...
/ So that he may bear
>the yoke, the work of Ellil, / Let man bear the
load of the gods!"
>
>The Genesis accounts include agricultural labor,
but do not cast that
>labor as something done to ease the divine
workload. They do, however,
>offer conflicting perspectives on the
significance, location, and
>division of the labor--The El/Elohim creation
story in Genesis 1 has man
>(both male and female) subduing the *entire*
earth (no mean feat, that),
>while the Yahweh creation story of Genesis 2-3
has man (Adam) tending
>the garden of Eden only, and then Adam and Eve
tossed out of the garden
>into the wider world, where hard agricultural
labor awaits Adam and hard
>pregnancy labor awaits Eve. Milton, as so often,
seems to be attempting
>to mix these two perspectives from Genesis, with
Adam *and* Eve sharing
>the "horticultural" labor in the garden, and
dividing their "labors"
>after their expulsion therefrom.
>
>It has been a while since I read Richard Strier's
article, but I
>remember quite clearly the Newberry Library
Milton Seminar presentation
>he gave based on the material therein, and the
sense I had was that he
>was arguing at least as much from a "criticizing
Milton's Heaven"
>perspective as anything else (and that seemed to
rile up certain
>audience members rather nicely--an object lesson
in the value of certain
>kinds of contrarian arguments).
>
>And Raphael has always seemed to me to be a bit
of a joke, though one
>that is important to the plot. "Here's the
knowledge! Here's the
>knowledge!...now, now...don't be *too*
curious..." Much of Satan's
>temptation--in terms of technique, items of
appeal, and even specific
>arguments, has its source in Raphael's garrulous
nature (his big mouth).
>Satan never even gets the chance to "excite their
minds / With more
>desire to know" (4.522-23), because Raphael beats
him to it. Withholding
>astronomical knowledge is, by that point, another
in a series of
>gestures that suggest the idea that Adam and Eve
will have to "open to
>themselves" (7.158), not only "the way / Up
hither" but the way to all
>knowledge, and that the opening to themselves is
going to require the
>experience of transgression, taking something
that is forbidden,
>crossing a boundary. After that--after the
transgression, after the
>taking, after the crossing--*then* repentance,
contrition, obedience
>will bring "Fruits of more pleasing savour [...]
/ than those / Which,
>his own hand manuring, all the trees / Of
Paradise could have produced,
>ere fallen / From innocence" (11.26-30). But not
before.
>
>
>Michael Bryson
>
>---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:39:26 -0400
>From: "Jeffrey Theis" <jtheis at salemstate.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Milton and Gardens:
queries on JM's aesthetics
>To: "John Milton Discussion List"
<milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>>I would strongly agree with Jeffery Hodges that
Alexandra Dimakos is
>>making too big a leap in associating the garden
walls with Raphael's
>>warning Adam off from astronomical knowledge.
There are many
>boundaries
>>in this epic, and they are not all equivalent.
As Hodges correctly
>>notes, Adam and Eve would have populated the
entire earth, not just
>>Eden. Thus prohibition of knowledge of the rest
of the earth does not
>>seem a compelling argument here. I also think of
Richard Strier's
>>argument that Eden is better than heaven as a
nice reminder that
>staying
>>in Eden is no punishment--it is world and
pleasure enough.
>>
>>I do think that it helps to think of boundaries
not only as markers
>of
>>control or power (though they often serve that
function); rather,
>they
>>also have a means of focusing one's attention.
If we remember that
>Adam
>>and Eve are charged to till and keep nature, it
is a more feasible
>>occupation if the two of them do not have to
take on the entire
>planet
>>right away. The walls allow for a kind of focus
that does not really
>>keep out knowledge or keep Adam and Eve
ignorant. Instead, the walls
>>focus their attention so that they are a) near
the interdicted tree
>(as
>>Jeffery nicely argues), and b) come to a richer
knowledge of creation
>>itself as they engage in their horticultural
tasks.
>>
>>Stella's advice to look at John Evelyn is also a
very good idea. I'd
>>recommend Douglas Chambers' *The Planters of the
English Landscape
>>Garden: Botony, Trees, and the Georgics.* Yale
UP, 1993. Also look at
>>Chambers' essay, “‘Wild Pastorall
Encounter’: John Evelyn, John
>>Beale and the Renegotiation of Pastoral in the
Mid-Seventeenth
>>Century.” In Culture and Cultivation in Early
Modern England:
>>Writing and the Land, edited by Michael Leslie
and Timothy Raylor,
>>173-94. Beale and Evelyn engaged in an
interesting discussion of
>adding
>>wildness/wilderness to English gardens. Beale is
a bit more radical
>in
>>his reform ideas than is Evelyn.
>>
>>
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Jeffrey S. Theis
>>Assistant Professor; Department of English
>>233 Meier Hall
>>Mailing Address:
>> Salem State College
>> 352 Lafayette Street
>> Salem, MA 01970-5353
>>Phone:(978) 542-6845
>>E-Mail: jtheis at salemstate.edu
>>SSC Web Profile:
https://www.salemstate.edu/profile/jtheis/
>>Home Page: http://www.salemstate.edu/~jtheis/
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>>>>> Horace Jeffery Hodges
<jefferyhodges at yahoo.com> 6/19/2009 6:07 PM
>>>>>
>>Alexandra Dimakos suggests that "the walls are
meant to keep a
>curious
>>Adam from exploring the outside world," and she
cites Raphael's words
>to
>>Adam in Book VIII:
>>
>>Dream not of other Worlds, what Creatures there
>>Live, in what state, condition or degree,
>>Contented that thus far hath been reveal'd
>>Not of Earth only but of highest Heav'n.
(8:175-78)
>>
>>>From the context, however, Adam and Raphael
would seem to be
>speaking
>>of astronomy and worlds beyond the earth. I
don't yet see strong
>>evidence that this also includes the "outside
world" beyond the
>Garden's
>>walls.
>>
>>I do agree that Adam and Eve are expected to
remain within the
>Garden,
>>for they have work to do there. Eventually,
however, they would be
>able
>>to leave, for with their offspring borne to
populate the earth, the
>>Garden would one day grow too restricted.
Presumably, their work in
>the
>>Garden would have prepared them for making a
garden of the entire
>earth
>>. . . though they would ultimately (perhaps)
have sublimated their
>>grossly corporeal bodies into subtler spirit (or
some such wording).
>>
>>The walls also serve to keep the two within
range of the provoking
>>object, that interdicted, testing tree.
>>
>>On keeping Satan out . . . well, the walls of
Hell were intended to
>>keep Satan in but give him an out if he should
choose to defy God's
>>limits anyway. By leaving Satan free to escape
Hell and break into
>>Paradise, God leaves open Satan's path toward
greater damnation -- a
>>puzzling economy of damnation that seems less
than economical, but it
>>appears to be part of Milton's great argument.
>>
>>Jeffery Hodges
>>
>>
>>--- On Fri, 6/19/09, Alexandra Dimakos
<adimakos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>From: Alexandra Dimakos <adimakos at gmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Milton and Gardens:
queries on JM's
>aesthetics
>>To: "John Milton Discussion List"
<milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
>>Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 4:01 PM
>>
>>
>>Hi Susan,
>>
>>Your statement "I am not certain of the roots
but "Paradise" might
>come
>>from 'walled garden.' " sparked my curiosity as
I have been recently
>>researching and writing about this idea.
>>
>>I've found that in Michael Lieb's article "'Holy
Place': A Reading of
>>Paradise Lost" that "the Renaissance
understanding of the 'paradise'
>>itself -- pairidaeza formed on pairi ('around')
and diz ('to mould,'
>>''to form') -- not only as a 'park' or 'pleasure
ground' but also,
>>significantly, as an 'enclosure' or a 'place
walled in''" (135).
>>
>>I also wanted to address Michael's idea or
question: "As to why the
>>whole Garden needs to be fenced off from the
rest of the world."
>>
>>Although there are many theories, it seems to me
that Eden is fenced
>>off because it is meant from keeping Adam and
Eve from leaving. I
>>understand that many will say that the wall is
meant to keep Satan
>out
>>of the garden. But, does it work? Satan doesn't
have much trouble
>>"jumping the fence" and entering into Eden. If
the walls are there to
>>protect Adam and Eve, they do not serve them
well.
>>
>>In contrast, the walls are meant to keep a
curious Adam from
>exploring
>>the outside world. Raphael tells Adam in Book
IIX:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Dream not of other Worlds, what Creatures there
>>Live, in what state, condition or degree,
>>Contented that thus far hath been reveal’d Not
of Earth only but of
>>highest Heav’n. (8:166-78)
>>
>>
>>The walls may also serve this purpose: to keep
Adam from exploring
>the
>>"other Worlds" that lay beyond Eden. Also there
is only one Gate that
>>leads in and out of Eden, but Adam and Eve are
only allowed to cross
>>that threshold when they are expelled from their
home. They are never
>>told they can freely enter and exit Eden at
their leisure. There is a
>>great sense of control that stems from these
walls and this one gate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Susan Allison
<jbase484 at gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>I am not certain of the roots but "Paradise"
might come from "walled
>>garden." Of course that is not the only reason
but "Paradise" may
>have
>>retained that meaning.
>>Susan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>As to why the whole Garden needs to be fenced
off from the rest of
>the
>>world, that’s an interesting question.
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>--
>>Lecturer
>>English Department
>>California State University, Northridge
>>18111 Nordhoff St,
>>Northridge, CA 91330-8248
>>(818) 677-3434
>>
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