[Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise Lost
Michael Bryson
michael.bryson at csun.edu
Sat Apr 18 04:11:46 EDT 2009
Jonny,
In terms of being patronizing and condescending, I
really don't think you have anything to apologize
for. You have been a champion along both lines for
some time now on this list. And your rhetorical
habit of invoking violence, and vague threats
thereof...do you extend this habit to your
bricks-and-mortar, offline life? Do you treat your
fellow students, your professors, as you often treat
the members of this list? I hope not, for their
sakes, if not for yours.
Honestly, when does enough become enough? When will
you grow weary of playing the bully here? You claim
that professors should respect students (and
performers should respect their audiences), but you
give no respect--you merely expect it. You go to
great lengths to present yourself here as a
rhetorically violent snowflake who thinks his
opinions are to be given weight because they are
his, and because they are expressed by someone who
is not shy about telling the rest of us how large
and strong he is, and how willing he is to
physically (and/or otherwise) assault any and all
who dare disagree with him, or find his rhetorical
stance incredibly boorish.
You like to stir things up. That's often a good
thing. But, to be perfectly frank, you have stirred
things up to the point that this list is suffering
for it. Who benefits? What end is served? What do
you get out of this, other than the pleasure of
telling us all off now and then, since we "in the
sublime clique of academia" believe, apparently,
that undergraduates "should just kiss the summa cum
laude ring on the royal fingers with a reverend knee
dug in the ground"? Why would you want to talk to
us, any of us, if that is how you see us?
Michael Bryson
---- Original message ----
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:28:06 -0400
From: jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise Lost
To: John Milton Discussion List
<milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
Salwa,
“Sublime”, as you say, could not exist without
the inane, could it? So in that sense, the
“inane” serves a very important function. For
instance, it provides academics the opportunity to
be patronizing and condescending to those they
believe to be intellectually anemic and inferior
to them. So, heck, following that line of
“inane” rational, you should probably, uh, I
don’t know...send me a Thank You card? No? Well,
ok...
Look, I’m just a student, alright? I don’t
have a BA, MFA or PhD after my name (and even if I
did I would still get better dental care in jail).
The question of whether or not PL is the greatest
work ever written in the English language was not
my question; I just simply responded to it. When
Bill got drug out of the ‘ol closet, I said what
I had to say about his “poetry” and body of
work compared to Milton. I was personally received
with some disrespect, and what did I do? Well, I
gave some back. Some have said that I live in the
Old Testament, but I really don’t. In my world,
if you take one of my eyes, I’ll take “both”
of yours, and then I’ll tell you (as you’re
stumbling around in darkness) that in the land of
the blind, the one eyed man is king. I know it’s
unfair, but this is also why you shouldn’t flip
strangers off – because you never know...
And for the life of me I can’t understand why
someone who is disrespectful to someone should
expect anything else in return. Madonna sang,
“We are living/in a Material World”, and John
Milton sang that we are living in a Post Lapsarian
world (same song, really). I didn’t break the
world, I just shuck all the blame onto my first
Grandparent's while wading though the mess that
they left me in their will.
And what would you do if someone suggested (on a
Milton list, no less) that you should be removed?
Oh, that’s right, I almost forgot – you will
never face something so egregious because you’re
in the sublime clique of academia, and students
like myself should just kiss the summa cum laude
ring on the royal fingers with a reverend knee dug
in the ground.
I’m not directing this at you personally, but
respect is a two way street. And I don’t care if
you’re a Professor or the second coming of Otis
Redding, the former should still respect their
students and the latter should still respect their
audience – because, without them, the Crystal
Ball says “Clean up on Aisle 9”.
In closing, I read “The Enclosed Garden in C.S.
Lewis’ The Chronicles of Narnia”, and thought
overall it was well done. See? You Love C.S.
Lewis, and I’ve loved and studied him since I
was a child in theology school. And with all due
respect to this “inane” thread and your two
cents on it, my feeling is that your silent
treatment is probably best.
Shalom,
Jonny
I am like God, and God like me.
I am as large as God, he is as small as I:
He cannot above me, nor I beneath him be.
- Silesius, "The Cherubic Wanderer."
On 4/18/09 12:48 AM, "Salwa Khoddam"
<skhoddam at cox.net> wrote:
Dear Milton Scholars,
I agree with S.Tertius and others who voiced
their opinions about this recent thread of
"inane" comments. Why is it that we are keeping
this "inane" discussion thread going? Could we
not get to the "sublime" without going through
the "inane"? I don't know what to say against
this avalanche of disrespectful and warped
opinions. I look to this list as a scholarly
source to advance my knowledge of Milton. I
have learned much from you and hope to continue
to do so. Yes, Milton would burn "inane" books,
although he would allow them to be published.
So must we use the "delete" key for "inane"
statements. Without a moderator, the silent
treatment is best.
Salwa Khoddam
----- Original Message -----
From: Scriblerus Tertius
<mailto:scriblerustertius at yahoo.com>
To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:47 PM
Subject: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise Lost
Mr. Angel,
I'm glad to know that you can make words using
the most commonly occuring letters in the
English language, but I do not understand what
you are blathering about. Maybe your synapses
are not firing because I never asserted to
know Milton better than you. Milton wasn't
"all about censorship." He only wanted things
with no orientation to his particular truth
censored. A close reading of _Areopagitica_
will bear that out. Methinks I hit a nerve.
Best,
S. Tertius
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:08:56 -0400
From: jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Re: Is Paradise Lost
To: John Milton Discussion List
<milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
Message-ID:
<C60D8728.165F%junkopardner at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
You know, if “names” counted in Scrabble,
and I had all the letters of your
name, I think I could win every time.
And you obviously know and understand Milton
far greater that I ever could,
because you can see that he was all about
censorship, whereas I’ve been
blinded to that.
So, thanks.
[chewing my self-censoring tongue bloody]
JA
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