[Milton-L] New to list - Epic Simile question/Paradise Lost

[Sara van den Berg]

A book by A.J. Waldock, Paradise Lost and Its Critics, contains a well-known
chapter on "Satan and the Techniques of Degradation."  You might check his
discussion.  I do not think it will be very helpful to you to try out your
own ideas on this list, but would suggest you ask your professor for
guidance.

S. van den Berg

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:35 PM, jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>wrote:

>  Well, again with the words here. "Monstrous" *has *a definition large
> size, but the many other definitions that suggest ugliness, deformity and
> every other negative association that being a "monster" carries seem more
> appropriate here. In the Leviathan simile, Milton writes:
>
> Thus Satan talking to his neerest Mate [ 192 ]
> With Head up-lift above the wave, and Eyes
> That sparkling blaz'd, his other Parts besides
> Prone on the Flood, extended long and large [ 195 ]
> Lay floating many a rood, in bulk as huge
> As whom the Fables name of monstrous size [ 197 ]
>
> Notice that in L. 197 he's using the word strictly in relation to "size".
> In the entire simile, it's all about "size" (could he have been taking a
> shot at "size matters"?). But he specifically uses monstrous in the
> Leviathan simile in relation to "huge" size, whereas there's no concrete
> reference to size in PL 10.511-514).
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/28/08 5:24 PM, "Horace Jeffery Hodges" <jefferyhodges at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> The final serpent image is one of a huge Satan. Satan and the other demons
> are transformed into serpents who 'feed' on apples of Sodom that become
> ashes in their mouths.
>
> His Visage drawn he felt to sharp and spare,
> His Armes clung to his Ribs, his Leggs entwining
> Each other, till supplanted down he fell
> A monstrous Serpent on his Belly prone, (PL 10.511-514)
>
> http://www.dartmouth.edu/~milton/reading_room/pl/book_10/index.shtml<http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Emilton/reading_room/pl/book_10/index.shtml>
>
> Jeffery Hodges
>
> --- On *Sun, 9/28/08, jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>* wrote:
>
> From: jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] New to list -  Epic Simile question/Paradise Lost
> To: "John Milton Discussion List" <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 4:12 PM
>
> Re: [Milton-L] New to list -  Epic Simile question/Paradise Lost Both a
> toad and a snake are miniscule in comparison to Satan's size in the
> Leviathan simile. This is the argument for diminishing size (not that it was
> progressively shrinking down in scale of the various animals).
>
> J
>
>
> On 9/28/08 5:02 PM, "Patricia Stewart" <pstewart at uga.edu> wrote:
>
> As to the thesis of dimenishing size in the poem , the similes compare
> Satan to Leviathon all the way down to a toad whispering in the sleeping
> Eve's ear, but the last image of Satan is as a twisting-in-agony snake in
> Hell.  Surely that serpent is larger than a toad.  So the thesis is invalid.
> Seems to me, folks, that we all need to take a deep breath, perhaps twitch
> our mantles blue, and go on t"to fresh woods, and pastures new."    Pat
> Stewart, UGa retired
>
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