[Milton-L] New to list - Epic Simile question/Paradise Lost

[Carol Barton]

Re: [Milton-L] New to list - Epic Simile question/Paradise Lost"Margie" is Professor Thickstun, and regardless of your age, your tone is adolescent, arrogant, and disrespectful. I think you owe her and the other members of this list who have "condescended" to try to help you an apology for wasting their time, and a thank you for giving you a number of shortcuts to the research a 36-year old student should be capable of doing himself.

You may not be able to understand the concept of intellectual property, but this is their livelihood, and the sole commodity for which they earn a living. If you avail yourself of their wisdom, they should be credited in your paper for having provided you with the guidance and knowledge you would have to pay other professionals (physicians, attorneys, accountants, financial advisors, etc.) handsomely to obtain. In short: your professor is being paid to teach you, and your objective should be to learn--not to poach.

Carol Barton
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jonnyangel 
  To: John Milton Discussion List 
  Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 3:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [Milton-L] New to list - Epic Simile question/Paradise Lost


  Well Margie, if I were writing a paper on the various definitions and connotations of the word enormity then most assuredly the Milton List would be on the works cited page. But I fail to see how any student in a Milton class, undergraduate or otherwise, would be getting their research done through discussion. Following that logic, I should cite the educated derelict I gave change to once when he saw my Milton T-Shirt and started a conversation in which he gave me several references to texts I should read, and insights into Milton I hadn't seen before. 

  Not that it matters, but I am 36 years old and I'm taking a Milton course because I wanted to (not because I "had" to). 

  Milton has always been my favorite writer, since I was a child in a private Christian school where the curriculum was theologically based.  

  J


  On 9/28/08 2:58 PM, "Margaret Thickstun" <mthickst at hamilton.edu> wrote:


    Friends--I have not responded to this thread before, but I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable by the way in which generous-minded individuals on the list are doing this person's research for him.  It seems to me that we cross an uncomfortable pedagogical and ethical line when the list's conversation shifts from discussing literary questions among scholars to offering guidance to other people's (undergraduate?) students.  I would certainly expect the Milton list to appear in a prominent way in an acknowledgments section for this paper, even if these postings do not have the status of other secondary sources. 

    Well, back to grading.--Margie

    gilliaca at jmu.edu wrote: 


      .>   And why would people with knowledge of Milton
        
       


          attempt to condescend to me for referring to Satan's
          enormous size within the first epic simile by
          nitpicking another definition of the word enormous?
          instead of understanding that the way I used the
          word was correct in referring to Satan being
          depicted as huge, and moving on to a discussion
          about the role of Satan's size in PL.

          And I'm not the kind to get snotty toward people
          trying to help me, but if you can't help someone,
          then you probably shouldn't chime in just to nitpick
          at something completely unrelated to the question
          asked.
            
         



      Nobody is trying to condescend to you - I meant my suggestion to consult a dictionary as practical aid.  

      You have gotten some very useful help from Milton scholars far more excellent than I. 

      Resorting to Humpty-Dumpty's lingusitic strategy in response does not further the discussion.

      C
      Cynthia A. Gilliatt
      English Department, JMU, ret.
      JMU Safe Zones supporter
      "You have made God in your own image when God hates the same people you hate." Fr. John Weston
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