[Milton-L] New to list - Epic Simile question/Paradise Lost

[Richard Durocher]

Dear J,

   One thing I noticed about your original post was that you appear
determined to make the simile be all about Satan's size.  Size is part of
the comparison but not all.  One phrase Milton uses, describing how God left
Satan "at large," is a pun.  "At large," as a good dictionary, especially
the historical Oxford English Dictionary (available online through most
college or university libraries), would tell you, has to do with Satan's
mobility or apparent freedom that God has left him, as well as with the
large bulk or scale of Satan that other parts of the simile describe.  I
discuss this issue more fully  in my book MILTON AND OVID (Ithaca, 1985).  A
recent fine discussion of the simile appears in a recent issue of the
journal MILTON STUDIES by Bryan Hampton, and that essay too describes the
multiplicity of meanings Milton ties to Satan, including the uncertainty of
trusting in him.

  Good luck,

  Rich DuRocher
  St. Olaf College

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 11:41 AM, jonnyangel <junkopardner at comcast.net>wrote:

>  Well, if by "know their subject inside out" you mean every definition of
> the word "enormous" I would have to disagree.
> On the subject of Milton, however, I'm sure you are correct, and that's why
> I'm here.
>
> J
> ,
>
>
>
> On 9/28/08 7:14 AM, "Christine Gray" <langwidge at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Mr. Colburn, I suggest you drop the subject.
>
> The members of this list *k-n-o-w* their subject inside out.
>
> I'm a lurker.  I sit on the side and watch/listen.
>
> Christine in Baltimore
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu [
> mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu]<milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu%5D>
> *On Behalf Of *jonnyangel
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2008 2:27 AM
> *To:* John Milton Discussion List
> *Subject:* Re: [Milton-L] New to list - Epic Simile question/Paradise Lost
>
> "Etymological dictionaries are the product of research in historical
> linguistics. For a large number of words in any language, the etymology will
> be uncertain, disputed, or simply unknown. In such cases, depending on the
> space available, an etymological dictionary will present various suggestions
> and perhaps make a judgment on their likelihood, and provide references to a
> full discussion in specialist literature."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_dictionary
>
> Respectfully submitted,
> Jonathan Colburn, Plumber
> Bedford, In
>
>
>
>
> On 9/27/08 11:39 PM, "susan allison" <jbase484 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Partridge's  Etymological Dictionary offers:
>
> from *norma, a carpenter's square you get ab-norma and e-norma.
> Ab-norma is "away from the square"-- abnormal
> whereas e-norma is "outside" of the square,
>
> if the carpenter's square is not just measurement but also "code of
> conduct"
> then Satan not only veers "away" from the code but actually subsumes it, is
> beyond a code of conduct, hence morally outrageous. Milton pushes the
> envelope in both directions.
>
> or so it seems to me.
>
> respectfully submitted,
> Susan Allison, Poet
> Middletown, Ct
>
> *On Sep 27, 2008, at 11:20 PM, jonnyangel wrote:
> I have quite a few, some even from the 20th century.
>
> Sounds like you might be in need of some newer ones...
>
> J
>
>
> On 9/27/08 11:15 PM, "gilliaca at jmu.edu" <gilliaca at jmu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> .>I'm aware of the various definitions of the word, .
>
> Actually, it does not, ever, refer to size. Get a good dictionary.
> C
> Cynthia A. Gilliatt
> English Department, JMU, ret.
> JMU Safe Zones supporter
> "You have made God in your own image when God hates the same people you
> hate."
> Fr. John Weston
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