[Milton-L] Making Milton Matter To . . .

[Harold Skulsky]

I agree with Louis Schwartz.

Harold Skulsky

>>> "Schwartz, Louis" <lschwart at richmond.edu> 9/23/2008 11:38 AM >>>
Jim,

It sounds to me like your saying two different things, but if I
understand you correctly I think you mean them to be thought of as
related.  One is that Milton matters because of what his work is about.
The other is that he matters because he is, as Gardner says, "a master
of communicable meaning."  The emphasis, for me here would be on the
"mastery," although I wouldn't discount the meanings themselves.  I'd
even go so far as to say that Milton's distinction-and the root of why
he matters-has something to do with the way the meanings, the ideas he
offers to us, are inextricably tied to the ways in which he offers them
(and perhaps you're saying this too).  He seems to have valued, enacted,
and expressed a peculiarly intense level of complex engagement with
particular ideas, and done so in a way that makes such engagement
possible for others at a congruent level of intensity (or at least one
approaching his).  What's more, these possibilities for engagement
operate on several levels of feeling, intellect, and imagination at once
and at levels more intense than are possible with most (although not
all) other texts. This is because he mastered a particular mode of
expression-at once wanton and heedful, giddy and cunning-more fully than
most other writers.  And this is why he's better, say, than any number
of others who have written about the same topics (or for that matter
those who used the same forms).   

That's also how I'd address Gardner's concern about whether or not this
boils down to "It's valuable because I like it."  I do like it, no doubt
about that.  I'm less certain that this predilection of mine will be
universally shared or even should be, but when it comes to that part of
humanity that already values certain things, for example the heightened
states of intellect and feeling that literature can make possible when
its masterfully written, I think that the best way to argue for the
value of Milton is to display (in the classroom, in conversation, and in
critical and scholarly essays) just exactly what his work allows us to
do.  And I'd add that it allows these things because of certain
objective features of its structure and because of what these features
can be said to mean in relation to other texts and to the world.  I'm
not making it up, in other words-I didn't write those remarkable lines
from "L'Allegro"-they were there before me.  I'm just glad that someone
who was worked up about them once upon a time brought them to my
attention in a state of remarkable excitement.  

Perhaps we're on the same page?

L. 

===========================
Louis Schwartz
Associate Professor of English
University of Richmond
Richmond, VA  23173
(804) 289-8315
lschwart at richmond.edu 
 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu 
[mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of
jfleming at sfu.ca 
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:37 AM
To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu 
Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Making Milton Matter To . . .

Gardner, I'm glad my remark prompted yours. I'm afraid I don't
understand
"enfolded sublime." But  "figure that we occupy and that at the same
time
occupies us" -- that sounds like tradition, in Gadamer's sense -- and
that,
in my view, is indeed a key critical subject-matter, corresponding to
the
handing-over or handing-down (trado, tradere) of an intension. Best
wishes,
JDF 

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:08:44 -0500 milton-l at lists.richmond.edu wrote:
> James Dougal Fleming writes:
>	
> "the modalities of intensional transmission in which Milton as poet,
> and the teacher as critic, are expert."
>	
>	
> Including the modality of what Frost calls "the constant symbol," and
> what Wally Kerrigan terms "the enfolded sublime," the figure that we
> occupy and that at the same time occupies us. The semantic and the
> existential find a happy union there. If Kerrigan is also right that
> Milton is the master poet of the enfolded sublime, then Milton matters

> very much as a master of communicable meaning. (I realize I'm probably

> just mangling what James has already said, but at least it's an
> enthusiastic mangling, and a covert invitation for him to elaborate on

> his observation.)
>	
> Gardner
>	
> Dr. Gardner Campbell 
> Director, Academy for Teaching and Learning 
> Assoc. Prof. of Literature and Media, Honors College 
> Baylor University 
> One Bear Place, Box 97189 
> Waco, TX 76798 
> 254.710.3412 
> www.gardnercampbell.net 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu on behalf of jfleming at sfu.ca 
> Sent: Mon 9/22/2008 2:10 PM
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu 
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] Making Milton Matter To . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Louis writes:
> 
> "That peculiar intensity, that
> sense of mastery and being mastered, of being embraced and expelled,
of
> embracing and expelling, teaching and being taught, is the only
argument
> I've got.
> 
> Is there a better one?"
> 
> If there is -- and in my opinion, there is -- it has to do with the
> subject-matters of Milton -- in other words, the ideas that his texts
are
> about. The latter, moreover, are traceable not to the ethical or
visceral
> experience of the world, but to JDF
> 
> James Dougal Fleming
> Associate Professor
> Department of English
> Simon Fraser University
> 778-782-4713
> cell: 604-290-1637
> 
> Nicht deines, einer Welt.
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu 
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l 
> 
> 


James Dougal Fleming
Associate Professor
Department of English
Simon Fraser University
778-782-4713
cell: 604-290-1637

Nicht deines, einer Welt.
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