[Milton-L] RE: Dennis Danielson's quiet voice

[Tony Demarest]

In Odyssey I, Zeus reminds Athena that man acts independently of the gods: even when Hermes warns Aegisthus not to take Clytemnestra as a mistress, and not to murder Agamemnon, he does- the deception is based more on man's inability to read correctly the ambiguity of the universe, a skill inherent within a god.
----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:52:33 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Milton-L] RE: Dennis Danielson's quiet voice
> From: jfleming at sfu.ca
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
> 
> But in Greek religion -- as Nietzsche points outs somewhere -- is it not
> precisely the case that the gods made you do it (whatever it was)? "He must
> have been deceived by a god," say the Greeks, at the downfall of a great
> man. Or think of Croesus in Herodotus, explaining himself to Cyrus: "the god
> of the Greeks encouraged me to fight you; the blame is his." (This despite
> the intervening hermeneutic enigma of the Delphic oracle, which is what
> Croesus is talking about.) Thus, Nietzsche says, the Greek gods take on
> themselves "not the guilt [of human error, a la Christ] -- but, what is
> nobler, _the shame_!" 
> 
> In short, the problems of the "theodicy" idea seem to multiply. JDF
> 
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:47:12 -0500 milton-l at lists.richmond.edu wrote:
>> Milton is deeply indebted to Homer and he knew it: not only	
>> generically but also for plot devices (Eve as Patrokles) and	
>> especially for his handling of the theme of theodicy.  God's speeches  
>> in Book 3 echo the sentiments of Zeus as expressed in the Odyssey.	
>> For Homer's Zeus as for Milton, the emphasis in theodicy was not in	
>> developing a theological argument about the divine character so much	
>> as it to give determinist humanity a bracing slap across the face:	
>> stand up and take responsibility for your own behavior.  Stop whining  
>> and finger-pointing as if God or the devil made you do it.  From	
>> Milton's point of view, JFK was right: God's work on Earth must truly  
>> be our own.  I don't think you need to be a believer, certainly not a  
>> traditional believer, to believe that.
>> 
>> According to his daughter, Milton had Homer by heart.
>> 
>> John Rumrich
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 9, 2008, at 3:54 PM, Carrol Cox wrote:
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> "Watt, James" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Milton's critics will be read when Homer has been forgotten.
>>>
>>> That reading and admiring Milton can lead to such incredibly ignorant
>>> statements as this is the strongest possible negative judgment of
>>> Milton. But Milton stands above such petty critics with their utter
>>> inability to grasp Homer. The Iliad, in particular the last two books,
>>> even in translation, tower over anything else ever written in the	
>>> west.
>>>
>>> In that poem, humanity discovers its humanity, snd the tragic	
>>> meaning of
>>> that humanity. Paradise Lost, as wonderful as it is, stands deep in  
>>> the
>>> shadow of Homer.
>>>
>>> Carrol
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Milton-L mailing list
>>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Milton-L mailing list
>> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
>> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
>> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
>> 
> 
> 
> James Dougal Fleming
> Associate Professor
> Department of English
> Simon Fraser University
> 778-782-4713
> cell: 604-290-1637
> 
> Nicht deines, einer Welt.
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l

_________________________________________________________________
Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/