[Milton-L] RE: Dennis Danielson's quiet voice

[jfleming at sfu.ca]

But in Greek religion -- as Nietzsche points outs somewhere -- is it not
precisely the case that the gods made you do it (whatever it was)? "He must
have been deceived by a god," say the Greeks, at the downfall of a great
man. Or think of Croesus in Herodotus, explaining himself to Cyrus: "the god
of the Greeks encouraged me to fight you; the blame is his." (This despite
the intervening hermeneutic enigma of the Delphic oracle, which is what
Croesus is talking about.) Thus, Nietzsche says, the Greek gods take on
themselves "not the guilt [of human error, a la Christ] -- but, what is
nobler, _the shame_!" 

In short, the problems of the "theodicy" idea seem to multiply. JDF

On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 18:47:12 -0500 milton-l at lists.richmond.edu wrote:
> Milton is deeply indebted to Homer and he knew it: not only	
> generically but also for plot devices (Eve as Patrokles) and	
> especially for his handling of the theme of theodicy.  God's speeches  
> in Book 3 echo the sentiments of Zeus as expressed in the Odyssey.	
> For Homer's Zeus as for Milton, the emphasis in theodicy was not in	
> developing a theological argument about the divine character so much	
> as it to give determinist humanity a bracing slap across the face:	
> stand up and take responsibility for your own behavior.  Stop whining  
> and finger-pointing as if God or the devil made you do it.  From	
> Milton's point of view, JFK was right: God's work on Earth must truly  
> be our own.  I don't think you need to be a believer, certainly not a  
> traditional believer, to believe that.
> 
> According to his daughter, Milton had Homer by heart.
> 
> John Rumrich
> 
> 
> On Oct 9, 2008, at 3:54 PM, Carrol Cox wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > "Watt, James" wrote:
> >>
> >> Milton's critics will be read when Homer has been forgotten.
> >
> > That reading and admiring Milton can lead to such incredibly ignorant
> > statements as this is the strongest possible negative judgment of
> > Milton. But Milton stands above such petty critics with their utter
> > inability to grasp Homer. The Iliad, in particular the last two books,
> > even in translation, tower over anything else ever written in the	
> > west.
> >
> > In that poem, humanity discovers its humanity, snd the tragic	
> > meaning of
> > that humanity. Paradise Lost, as wonderful as it is, stands deep in  
> > the
> > shadow of Homer.
> >
> > Carrol
> >
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James Dougal Fleming
Associate Professor
Department of English
Simon Fraser University
778-782-4713
cell: 604-290-1637

Nicht deines, einer Welt.