[Milton-L] Jonah 4?

Cristine Soliz csoliz at csoliz.com
Sat Dec 10 20:19:20 EST 2005


Jack Weatherford (_Indian Givers_) says that American Indians developed all
the squashes, if that helps.

-- 
Dr. Cristine Soliz
PhD in Comparative Literature
Faculty in English, Diné College
http://csoliz.com
csoliz at csoliz.com


> From: "Schwartz, Louis" <lschwart at richmond.edu>
> Reply-To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:58:16 -0500
> To: John Milton Discussion List <milton-l at lists.richmond.edu>
> Conversation: [Milton-L] Jonah 4?
> Subject: RE: [Milton-L] Jonah 4?
> 
> This is one of those problems with no perfect solution, but I'm not sure
> we need one.  The problem is as simple as it is intractable.  No one
> knows what a "qiqayon" is or was, and we're therefore not likely to come
> up with a botanically definitive translation any time soon (maybe
> never).  On the other hand, the characteristics of the plant are clear
> enough from the context.  It has to be something with either enough
> leaves or big enough leaves to be shady, and it has to be vulnerable to
> worms.  It might have been fast-growing, but then the speed could be
> easily conceived of from the context as miraculous.  So "gourd" works
> pretty well, perhaps better than "ivy" in the sense that big-leaved
> squash-like plants do wither and rot pretty quickly, and they tend to do
> so unpleasantly and messily (ivy is an evergreen and withers, when it
> does, in a sort of crunchy, desiccated way), but I'm not sure that it
> matters all that much. It just has to grow, create some nice shade, and
> then be killed quickly.  We don't even know, as far as I can tell, just
> how specific a term "qiqayon" itself was. Maybe it was a broad
> classification? I don't know, and neither do any of the scholars I've
> looked at, so as far as botanical specifics are concerned it's all
> speculation.  As far as the imaginative and narrative requirements of
> the passage are concerned, however, we have pretty much what we need,
> and "gourd," "shady vine," even "ivy" will more or less do it.
> 
> L. 
> 
> ===========================
> Louis Schwartz
> Associate Professor of English
> University of Richmond
> Richmond, VA  23173
> (804) 289-8315
> lschwart at richmond.edu
>  
>  
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu
> [mailto:milton-l-bounces at lists.richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Mattison
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 6:16 PM
> To: milton-l at lists.richmond.edu
> Subject: [Milton-L] Jonah 4?
> 
> Sorry this is a little off-topic (I'm thinking about the shade of ivy
> and vines in Milton and Spenser), but does anyone on this list know
> why the King James has, at Jonah 4:6, "And the Lord God prepared a
> gourd. . . "?  The Vulgate is "et praeparavit Dominus Deus hederam;"
> C.T. Lewis has hedera as specifically ivy, which seems like by far the
> most common translation.  It seems almost like the KJV goes out of its
> way to avoid it--any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andrew Mattison
> Asst. Professor of English
> University of Toledo
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Milton-L mailing list
> Milton-L at lists.richmond.edu
> Manage your list membership and access list archives at
> http://lists.richmond.edu/mailman/listinfo/milton-l
> 
> 





More information about the Milton-L mailing list